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NFL Thread 2019-2020

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22 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

My point is you don't create future cap issues for situational / role players. You just don't.  If this was the Houston of 3 years ago, great, sign me up for robbing future cap space. We are robbing future cap space for situational type players. I don't like that one bad. 

I in general agree. However you never know what your window will be. Bears have talented roster but do not have a lot of draft picks, I want to maximize this roster now. With the exception of the patriots and the great job Andy Reid has done, even successful orgs have had basically two reboots in a decade. Look at Philly. Really good decade, two rebuilds in it. 

Bears cant just trust that trubisky will be elite and carry them during periods where they need to retool.

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Wasn’t really a fan of Larsen. Could have been a Fox issue and he was favored by FO, but certainly liked Kush and Wintzmann more.

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38 minutes ago, Tony said:

We all want the Bears future to be incredibly bright for the long haul. But as you mentioned, injuries and just the randomness of football can change everything in a second. What we do know, almost for certain, is this core is locked up for the next few seasons. And they need to capitalize on that ASAP. It also goes without saying that Pace deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to understanding that money needs to be set aside from guys like Eddie Jackson and won't let role players get in the way of that. 

BUT, you need to get better. They can't sit around on the sidelines and do all bargain deals, especially when they don't have a 1st or 2nd. Everyone around you is getting better. The Bears were also incredibly lucky when it came to health and just ball luck last season, I'm not ready to say that's going to happen again. 

I wasn't really for Bell, I thought it would be fun as hell but it wouldn't be smart money. Adding to a strength, and making yourself even stronger with a guy like Houston is something I can get behind. 

The thing is, the Bears don't really have a lot of holes that they NEED to address. I know it's fun when teams spend money but those teams- Oakland, Jets, Bucs, Dolphins- are doing this every year for a reason- they draft bad each year and need to find guys from other teams, a la what the Bears had to do for years. But now, the Bears are finding 2-3 good players every spring no matter the round, so they don't really have big problems.

They needed a runner, they needed receiver depth and the kick returning had to improve. Well they got better at back-up RB (Davis > Cunningham). They got better at WR (Patterson > Bellamy). They got better at KR (Patterson > Miller & Cunningham). People will argue that Skrine is terrible, but his ypt given up was a yard better than Callahan's in 2018 and his completion percentage against was 4% better than Callahan's in 2018. Does he take a lot of penalties? Sure, but now he won't have to defend for 5+ seconds on every snap.

They probably still need another rush linebacker. A strong safety would be ideal, but like Amos was, this SS will be the 9th or 10th best player on their defense anyway; not every starter will be great. They definitely still need a kicker. However they can address these spots in the draft and with UDFA's (punter and kicker).

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1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

My point is you don't create future cap issues for situational / role players. You just don't.  If this was the Houston of 3 years ago, great, sign me up for robbing future cap space. We are robbing future cap space for situational type players. I don't like that one bad. 

Yea but you are assuming the space was created for Houston.  What if it was for Earl Thomas or Bell, and they couldn't get those players to agree to terms?  They needed to create the space in order to negotiate, now they have it and they are trying to figure out how to use it.

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3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

 

They needed a runner, they needed receiver depth and the kick returning had to improve. Well they got better at back-up RB (Davis > Cunningham). They got better at WR (Patterson > Bellamy). They got better at KR (Patterson > Miller & Cunningham). People will argue that Skrine is terrible, but his ypt given up was a yard better than Callahan's in 2018 and his completion percentage against was 4% better than Callahan's in 2018. Does he take a lot of penalties? Sure, but now he won't have to defend for 5+ seconds on every snap.

 

Right now Davis is the starter, I would wager. He's their best combination of runner/receiver.

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10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Yea but you are assuming the space was created for Houston.  What if it was for Earl Thomas or Bell, and they couldn't get those players to agree to terms?  They needed to create the space in order to negotiate, now they have it and they are trying to figure out how to use it.

Is that really true? If you know you can generate $10m in cap space, can't you negotiate with the guy, actually have the offer on the table and have them ready to accept before you do the restructuring of the other guy's deal? 

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8 minutes ago, Tony said:

And that's great. But the same can be said for the other top-tier teams in the NFL, and it doesn't stop them from making significant improvements. I never called for the Bears to go crazy in FA, it's usually a fools errand and I agree the roster doesn't have a lot of holes to fill. That doesn't mean that when the opportunity present itself, they shouldn't take advantage. And they seemed to agree, otherwise I'm not sure why they made the move they did with Mack's deal. 

But how have the Patriots improved? Chargers? Rams? Chiefs? Seahawks? Eagles? Colts? Saints?

You fit those miniscule holes in the draft, not by signing older guys to large deals. 

Mack isn't comparable. That's an All Pro, DPOY who's on his way to Canton in his prime. 

Edited by soxfan49

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6 minutes ago, Tony said:

Right...which is going to be much more difficult for the Bears given what they gave up in previous deals, so plans should change accordingly. 

I wasn't talking about the trade, I'm talking about how they restructured the deal to open up cap space for now. 

But Pace has specialized in finding not only role players but really good players in those rounds: Howard 5, Amos 5, Cohen 4, Jackson 4, Nichols 5, so now he has to do it again.

My bad on the Mack comment. I reread it and it makes sense

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7 minutes ago, Tony said:

Pace has done a good job, I agree. It's also not always that easy, and at some point that luck runs out. On top of it, all those guys weren't difference makers in Year 1. There was some development time there, time the Bears don't totally have in this prime window. 

I'm also not a cap expert, but I don't think basically a two year deal for Justin Houston is going to cripple the Bears. 

He wouldn't, but you're talking about a 30 year old who hasn't played a full season since 2014 and was just cut by an organization with a horrendous defense. How good and how reliable is he at this stage?

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1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Yea but you are assuming the space was created for Houston.  What if it was for Earl Thomas or Bell, and they couldn't get those players to agree to terms?  They needed to create the space in order to negotiate, now they have it and they are trying to figure out how to use it.

I would have negotiated knowing I could get the space if needed.  Basically agree to the deal with a wink wink nudge nudge from Mack.  

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58 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is that really true? If you know you can generate $10m in cap space, can't you negotiate with the guy, actually have the offer on the table and have them ready to accept before you do the restructuring of the other guy's deal? 

Yes - This.  

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

And that's great. But the same can be said for the other top-tier teams in the NFL, and it doesn't stop them from making significant improvements. I never called for the Bears to go crazy in FA, it's usually a fools errand and I agree the roster doesn't have a lot of holes to fill. That doesn't mean that when the opportunity present itself, they shouldn't take advantage. And they seemed to agree, otherwise I'm not sure why they made the move they did with Mack's deal. 

I think they did it because they just have holes to fill. They need to sign a kicker and a punter and at least one safety, they only have 2 on the roster, for just players that need to start. They will also need to sign their draft picks. They had no real depth on the O line. I haven't seen the numbers on larson but that eats into it as well.

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1 hour ago, ptatc said:

I think they did it because they just have holes to fill. They need to sign a kicker and a punter and at least one safety, they only have 2 on the roster, for just players that need to start. They will also need to sign their draft picks. They had no real depth on the O line. I haven't seen the numbers on larson but that eats into it as well.

I think the Larsen deal eats into the Top 51 salary by $1M, they currently still have about ~$18M functional cap to work with, and that factors in the cap hit for draft picks.

That's a pretty solid number to work with. I think the Bears are waiting for prices to drop a bit before dipping into the pool to address the remaining needs,and see if the remaining guys are willing to take a pay cut as FA goes on.

With cap we have remaining, I am hoping we could get Houston and Eric Berry for 2 year deals. I don't expect Berry to cost a lot at this point with his recent injury history. I would trade Howard for a 5th rounder and sign Ty Montgomery. Depending on how much discount Berry/Houston takes we should have enough to address the K / P situation.

We could then plug in remaining holes with the picks we have and get depth pieces in OL, DL, SS to backup Berry, and a QB to succeed Daniels.

Edited by thxfrthmmrs

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7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Hub said the Bears turned down 3rd round picks for Howard.

If that's true, how did they not take that deal? 

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7 minutes ago, chw42 said:

If that's true, how did they not take that deal? 

Seriously. Pace getting alittle too greedy if that's the case. 

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11 minutes ago, chw42 said:

If that's true, how did they not take that deal? 

Hun said they would take a 2nd but really don’t want to trade him until they have a replacement. He also said they were never in for Bell, and he didn’t fit what Nagy was looking for because he may not be any faster than Howard.

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There's virtually no chance any team offered a 3rd for Howard. He's a slow RB with questionable hands who's gotten worse each year. I find that hard to believe.

Edited by soxfan49

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I hope Bears pass on signing Ha-Ha.....I don’t buy a 3rd rounder for Howard. He is a 2 down back.

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Dix and Tre Boston still out there along with Eric Berry if they wanna try that out.

 

Is there a way to find out how often Mack had his hands in the dirt and how successful he was doing it? I don't want his hands in the dirt all the time, but could you imagine a package where the front 7 is Mack, Goldman, Hicks, Floyd, Smith, Trevathon, and Justin Houston? That's scary. PFF still had Houston as a good pass rusher. 

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2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Hub said the Bears turned down 3rd round picks for Howard.

  Does this mean we had a team offering us multiple 3rd round picks?  

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2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

There's virtually no chance any team offered a 3rd for Howard. He's a slow RB with questionable hands who's gotten worse each year. I find that hard to believe.

Lets just remind everyone that his first two years, I believe he was the 2nd most productive back in rushing yards in the NFL (or something like that) and his YAC was fantastic.  He is limited and had a rough 3rd season in the league, but the dude was a beast his first two years with the Bears.  

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