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2 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said:

Just to be clear - that's both my law school debt and my wife's law school debt.  Also to be clear, both of us had decent scholarships and worked while in law school - law school is 'spensive.   

I generally understood what my monthly payment was going to be.  But because I went straight from undergrad to law school, I had no sense of the impact a student loan repayment would have on my budget in the real world.  

If I had it to do over again, I would probably have put off law school for a couple years.  Making those kind of financial decisions when you are 21-22 years old sets some kids up to fail (it's even worse when they are making those decisions at 18).

I gotcha.

At the risk of beating a dead horse and having Ray Ray freak out on me again, have you considered the military?

You could probably come in at a non-entry level rank, do JAG stuff, and get some serious repayment. Try it with the IL National Guard and you could reap benefits for only two days a month (ok- not sure about that, NG might not pay out until you've given them some serious time, like a deployment).

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4 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Sorry, Jack. Seems like you counted your chickens before they hatched. You could take up a side hustle. I Uber, and I'm even getting a real estate license. Just a thought.

That's fair. I just don't know how I benefit from your polisci/history degree. You don't really benefit from my criminal justice degree either.

That is what I do part-time and I rely on disability for the remainder of my income. It really doesn't make sense for me to do anything else unless my quality of life goes significantly higher. I'm not an idiot and I've done the math. I'd need a 40-45K/year job to become independent. It isn't cheap here. 

RE: the military-If i didn't have both physical and mental health issues, both me and my best friend were planning on joining the Navy as kids. My best friend's dad did 6 years enlistment and 25 years in the reserves, and reached CPO before he was forced into retirement due to illness. When I started having issues in my early teens that plan changed, because I knew I couldn't get in. I was smart enough to do any job, and would have had a pretty high chance of staying out of harms way. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

That is what I do part-time and I rely on disability for the remainder of my income. It really doesn't make sense for me to do anything else unless my quality of life goes significantly higher. I'm not an idiot and I've done the math. I'd need a 40-45K/year job to become independent. It isn't cheap here

Well...that's another thing you might want to reconsider...just sayin'.

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3 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Sorry, Jack. Seems like you counted your chickens before they hatched. You could take up a side hustle. I Uber, and I'm even getting a real estate license. Just a thought.

That's fair. I just don't know how I benefit from your polisci/history degree. You don't really benefit from my criminal justice degree either.

An educated society is valuable.  A society with equal access to education provides greater opportunity for upward mobility as well.

 

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43 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I just think that people should have the freedom to pick what degree that they want, and that they should have to live with the outcome of that. Its not our job as a society to babysit them. That being said, I also dont think most 18 year olds know their major or have a real college plan. Many people switch majors in college. I think that a lot of people default to things like poli sci, because they may not be able to make it in a harder major. 

Its not really straightforward. You could argue that if your not at a certain level in HS, maybe you shouldnt even be wasting your money on college. But that presupposes that no one can change, that no one can get better. Or on the other hand, no one can get worse.

I dont really have a lot of experience with those decisions, so I am not about to tell other people what to do. I lived in a world where college was an expectation not a choice. 

Right on the money Soxbadger. I was expected to go to college and I definitely made mistakes along the way. I applied to one college after seeing three of them and did so because I got an average ACT score. I thought my natural abilities were geared towards writing so I thought I would become a HS English teacher, journalist or sports radio host. Those were what I loved about high school, especially since I was misplaced in math and science and hated foreign language. 

I ended up transferring back to a community college for a semester because my grades were good but I didn’t know what I wanted to do after trying journalism, communications, education and English courses. I was lucky to get a scholarship to a private university my brothers attended so I could get a business degree. I also was able to work on campus in the sports information department and earned a scholarship that way as well.

I graduated in four years and a few after the recession. I worked at a few internships, one in the NFL, one at a startup and one in PR. I got a full time job doing FMLA administration that paid like crap but gave me a chance to live independently. I then got a new job, rented an apartment in my hometown and got married, then bought a house. I’m now in a data science program where my employer is paying 4/5 of the cost. I am one of the lucky ones that doesn’t have loans.

While I don’t think banks should discriminate against anyone who they give loans to, I do think people need to be more careful in thinking about their career path. Every day I wish I would have done things differently and focused on a career in health care, since jobs in nursing and PT are plentiful and pay well. My data science master’s degree could lead to something, but I am not sure how satisfying it will be. (This is nobody else’s issue but my own and I do feel blessed to be in a master’s program without paying much for it. I also didn’t consider health care careers until last year when we bought the house, but I will probably revisit those fields in the future if I fail at a data science role or if my job gets automated. Then again my wife wants kids soon...) School is tough to navigate when you’re young but community colleges can do wonders to help people work and figure out what they want to do without a lot of financial risk involved.

Edit: Sorry to hear of your circumstances Jack, I wish I could help. Uber is a great side hustle and is something I have considered to earn more.

Edited by The Beast

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12 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Well...that's another thing you might want to reconsider...just sayin'.

I've looked into it-places with a low cost of living have a much smaller job market. I need the biggest job markets I can get due to my disability. I really want to experience living outside the Chicago area, but it would have to be the right place. I don't want to live in a high-stress area if I can avoid it. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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2 minutes ago, The Sir said:

I gotcha.

At the risk of beating a dead horse and having Ray Ray freak out on me again, have you considered the military?

You could probably come in at a non-entry level rank, do JAG stuff, and get some serious repayment. Try it with the IL National Guard and you could reap benefits for only two days a month (ok- not sure about that, NG might not pay out until you've given them some serious time, like a deployment).

I'm good.  We're aggressively overpaying on the student loans now and are probably about 2-years away from having those paid off.  I know some people who went the JAG route out of law school - but you can't everybody from law school going to JAG - lol.

The overarching point was that student loan repayment has cut into my disposable income pretty hard over the last decade - and while some of that $$ would end up getting saved, people who aren't in as comfortable a position as I am end up participating less in the economy as consumers.  You want to stimulate the economy?  Find a way to make that $1.5T in student loan debt go away.

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20 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Right on the money Soxbadger. I was expected to go to college and I definitely made mistakes along the way. I applied to one college after seeing three of them and did so because I got an average ACT score. I thought my natural abilities were geared towards writing so I thought I would become a HS English teacher, journalist or sports radio host. Those were what I loved about high school, especially since I was misplaced in math and science and hated foreign language. 

I ended up transferring back to a community college for a semester because my grades were good but I didn’t know what I wanted to do after trying journalism, communications, education and English courses. I was lucky to get a scholarship to a private university my brothers attended so I could get a business degree. I also was able to work on campus in the sports information department and earned a scholarship that way as well.

I graduated in four years and a few after the recession. I worked at a few internships, one in the NFL, one at a startup and one in PR. I got a full time job doing FMLA administration that paid like crap but gave me a chance to live independently. I then got a new job, rented an apartment in my hometown and got married, then bought a house. I’m now in a data science program where my employer is paying 4/5 of the cost. I am one of the lucky ones that doesn’t have loans.

While I don’t think banks should discriminate against anyone who they give loans to, I do think people need to be more careful in thinking about their career path. Every day I wish I would have done things differently and focused on a career in health care, since jobs in nursing and PT are plentiful and pay well. My data science master’s degree could lead to something, but I am not sure how satisfying it will be. School is tough to navigate when you’re young but community colleges can do wonders to help people work and figure out what they want to do without a lot of financial risk involved.

While this is true, you can't account for unforeseen fluctuations in the market. Right before I graduated college oil prices were through the roof and business was booming in that industry. Within six months of graduation, the markets were starting to crash and people were getting laid off. There were people I met in AIChE who got a job out of school and had it for less than 18 months. The sad thing was, that the markets were crashing and people were getting laid off well before you and I saw the savings at the pump. 

Speaking of tax stuff, I'm good enough with Math so that I could learn how to do accounting. At this point, I'm looking for any avenue to gain my personal independence and a consistent living wage. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

While this is true, you can't account for unforeseen fluctuations in the market. Right before I graduated college oil prices were through the roof and business was booming in that industry. Within six months of graduation, the markets were starting to crash and people were getting laid off. There were people I met in AIChE who got a job out of school and had it for less than 18 months. The sad thing was, that the markets were crashing and people were getting laid off well before you and I saw the savings at the pump. 

That is true Jack. Although there is always a demand for health care because of the sick and also the aging baby boomer population. I’m considering using my data science and coding training to get into a health insurance carrier when my 6 month voluntary termination waiting period is up for my two courses this year. Then I can either stay and have the employer pay for the remaining two or I can have my new employer pay if I can get into a health care organization doing something more in line with the master’s (I already earned the certificate).

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14 minutes ago, The Beast said:

That is true Jack. Although there is always a demand for health care because of the sick and also the aging baby boomer population. I’m considering using my data science and coding training to get into a health insurance carrier when my 6 month voluntary termination waiting period is up for my two courses this year. Then I can either stay and have the employer pay for the remaining two or I can have my new employer pay if I can get into a health care organization doing something more in line with the master’s (I already earned the certificate).

Stay the fuck away from Epic-I interviewed with them for a disability-specific opening and they were complete assholes throughout the recruitment process. Very glad I didn't get hired there. I just wanted an answer on next steps after a week and when I asked to speak to the hiring manager as a follow up, they threatened me with arrest for harassment. They could have said they weren't interested and that would have done the job in a much more polite way. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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30 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Wow. Yeah, that's what you would think the government would charge their youth for education loans.

 

That would seem to be ideal - have loans go out as interbank rate plus the very small default risk component, which usually will make it right around inflation-neutral. Student Loans have a relatively low default rate in part because they are almost impossible to clear in a bankruptcy - they stick.

 

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3 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

That would seem to be ideal - have loans go out as interbank rate plus the very small default risk component, which usually will make it right around inflation-neutral. Student Loans have a relatively low default rate in part because they are almost impossible to clear in a bankruptcy - they stick.

 

Not only that but even when it is proven that you're struggling to fit into society, you still can't get them dismissed due to disability. You have to be a vegetable to get that relief. Believe me I've tried. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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10 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said:

I'm good.  We're aggressively overpaying on the student loans now and are probably about 2-years away from having those paid off.  I know some people who went the JAG route out of law school - but you can't everybody from law school going to JAG - lol.

The overarching point was that student loan repayment has cut into my disposable income pretty hard over the last decade - and while some of that $$ would end up getting saved, people who aren't in as comfortable a position as I am end up participating less in the economy as consumers.  You want to stimulate the economy?  Find a way to make that $1.5T in student loan debt go away.

Yeah, it's not for everybody. And while some take it that way, that's never the way I intend it. My point is solely that, for someone who's in the right physical and mental shape, and maybe not the best financial shape, the military is a great route. It's everybody's individual choice, though. I'll just recommend it.

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On 2/9/2019 at 12:11 AM, pettie4sox said:

I just finished my tax return and it's down down down this year... anyone else have a similar situation?

I lost about 200 bucks

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Retirees are really getting hammered, not exactly a SoxTalk well-represented group.

Let me add, recognize that your taxes may also be much lower in retirement if you make an intelligent choice to relocate from a high tax state to a low tax state. State, and sometimes local, income taxes can take a huge chunk out of your retirement income if it is taxable. The end of state and local income tax deductions on Federal returns means the retired taxpayer bears the full brunt of those taxes. Also, many states with income taxes also tax Social Security. Another factor to bear in mind when relocating for tax purposes is that not all low tax states are created equal in terms of the future tax outlook due to the overhang of unfunded and underfunded liabilities.

Edited by caulfield12
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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Retirees are really getting hammered, not exactly a SoxTalk well-represented group.

Let me add, recognize that your taxes may also be much lower in retirement if you make an intelligent choice to relocate from a high tax state to a low tax state. State, and sometimes local, income taxes can take a huge chunk out of your retirement income if it is taxable. The end of state and local income tax deductions on Federal returns means the retired taxpayer bears the full brunt of those taxes. Also, many states with income taxes also tax Social Security. Another factor to bear in mind when relocating for tax purposes is that not all low tax states are created equal in terms of the future tax outlook due to the overhang of unfunded and underfunded liabilities.

Illinois does not tax most types of retire plans. However, this is one if the ways they are discussing to raise more revenue.  Taking away one of the few reasons to stay in this state.

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43 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

That would seem to be ideal - have loans go out as interbank rate plus the very small default risk component, which usually will make it right around inflation-neutral. Student Loans have a relatively low default rate in part because they are almost impossible to clear in a bankruptcy - they stick.

 

Yep.  Ed Perlmutter (D-CO- House of Reps) is a former bankruptcy attorney.  He spoke at a conference I was at back in 2017 - shortly after the election.  He talked about the fact that there was some momentum for an amendment to the Bankruptcy Code regarding student loan debt had Clinton won in '16.

I think it would have to be structured something along the lines of "not subject to discharge for the first 10-years out of school" with some additional requirement of showing a good faith effort to make payments during that decade.  By the time that 10-years is up, folks with a chance to pay off the debts will have accumulated enough assets that bankruptcy isn't particularly appealing.  Thus, the change in the law would end up helping the people who actually need it and it wouldn't be a race to Chapter 7/13 immediately after graduation.

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I think this is going to end up being a textbook example of mental accounting and the kind of stuff you saw expressed in books like Nudge and other behavioral economics.

Economists would expect people to be rational try and pay as close to their accurate amount of taxes as possible because they could use that money for things they like or that they could get a bigger return on (getting even a negative return when including inflation from when the money is held by gov't).

Instead people liked getting a set of money in bulk at the end of the year to pay of credit cards, loans or even then saving. This is mental accounting. They could have used that money all year to do the same and had access to it, instead they preferred to treat it as separate and get it in bulk at the end of the year. When this corrected itself people are upset.

This is where things like opt-ins instead of opt-outs get their big play in places like 401k and other savings mechanisms. Rather than fight against it and claim its irrational, accommodating it to assist them. While saving inefficiently like this isn't optimal, it's better than not saving at all which may have occurred as people were confused what the change in tax law meant for them.

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24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This thread is getting closed, again.  It is getting reviewed for personal attacks, again.

 I am not sure what is going on lately, but the personal attacks need to stop.  It might take a while for the admin/mod group to talk about what is going on, but that doesn't mean they are being ignored.  Warnings and suspensions have, and are being, issued.

 

edit: decided to lock for some time to cool things off. Please visit the HR Block message board for more tax talk.

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