Hahn on 670 Tonight

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So Luhnow didn't use any of the players drafted prior to his arrival? That's weird... Altuve was drafted by someone else. Keuchel - drafted by someone else. George Springer? You guessed it, drafted by someone else. He hit on Bregman and Correa - Correa was 1-1 and a lock pick at that spot. Colin Mchugh? Drafted by another GM. Marwin Gonzalez? Same, drafted before Luhnow.

So if you want to give Luhnow credit for the success of the prior GM, go right ahead. Has he made sharp moves? Sure. The Cole, Verlander and etc stuff all came after the Astros started to turn the corner and win games though. He didn't lock anyone up before the success had shown itself.

Fine - Sale Eaton and Q were here before the rebuild. That means the rebuild inherited Moncada, Cease, Jiminez, Kopech, and others.  And Abreu for good measure.  Luhnow had his head start, and Hahn had his.  You (Hahn) can't have it both ways.  This either year 3 or it's year 7....but be consistent with comparisons.
It's simply not true that the successful modern rebuild takes 5 years.  It doesn't.
Let me ask you this - where would this rebuild be with only Hahn's drafting and his secondary trades (which have been, overall, poor)?  
I

Edited February 21, 2019 by GreenSox

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Fine - Sale Eaton and Q were here before the rebuild. That means the rebuild inherited Moncada, Cease, Jiminez, Kopech, and others.  And Abreu for good measure.  Luhnow had his head start, and Hahn had his.  You (Hahn) can't have it both ways.  This either year 3 or it's year 7....but be consistent with comparisons.
It's simply not true that the successful modern rebuild takes 5 years.  It doesn't.
Let me ask you this - where would this rebuild be with only Hahn's drafting and his secondary trades (which have been, overall, poor)?  
I

So now traded pieces are a part of the previous regime? My goodness the takes have been bad today. 

Where would any teams rebuilds be without prior resources? No where. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Jack Parkman]

29 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So now traded pieces are a part of the previous regime? My goodness the takes have been bad today. 

Where would any teams rebuilds be without prior resources? No where. 

@Look at Ray Ray Run

Listen, we're all venting right now. As time goes on, and we get further removed from this skullfuckery, We'll all be a lot more rational. I actually commend you for keeping a level head through out all of the embarrassment, disappointment and anger. There is really no need to argue. We all need to be negative and vent currently. It has been an embarrassing 3 days for the franchise. We're all mad. If you want to be positive, go start a positivity thread. I tried to be positive for a bit and I got shat upon so there is zero reason to do so right now. This too, shall pass. Once OD gets here we'll all be excited for baseball again. Until then, deal with the negativity and don't argue with us. Please let us wallow in our misery. It is therapeutic for everyone currently. We're trying to process the fact that they are, in fact, the same buffoons that they were from 2014-16. We're pissed off because: 

And we let them off the hook. 

So please forgive everyone for being irrational for the time being. We'll move on eventually. Please, don't argue because it is like talking to a wall. I'm giving you advice for your own mental health. 

Peace,

Parkman. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[JuliusO1274]

4 hours ago, South Sider said:

He explained that traditional opt outs are very player beneficial but have gravitated towards more balance for both parties lately. 

To me, it sounded like they aren't against them at all.

The key issue is the player opt out. Hahns comments suggest they are not fond of them because they are exclusively player beneficial hence the reason the Sox offer to Manny did not include any. This was likely one of the main nails in the coffin at our chances of signing him. The opt out he got from San Diego was after the 5th year, I still don't understand why the White Sox would care if Manny came and raked for 5 years and then opted out. We would of had him in his prime during the years we are hoping to contend.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

4 hours ago, Soxnfins said:

Lol @ Rick saying overpaying for a FA is unfair

That's not what he said.

[skooch]

16 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said:

The key issue is the player opt out. Hahns comments suggest they are not fond of them because they are exclusively player beneficial hence the reason the Sox offer to Manny did not include any. This was likely one of the main nails in the coffin at our chances of signing him. The opt out he got from San Diego was after the 5th year, I still don't understand why the White Sox would care if Manny came and raked for 5 years and then opted out. We would of had him in his prime during the years we are hoping to contend.

Would the Sox have balked if Manny's agent approached them and said he wanted a five-year 150 million dollar deal? If the answer is no, then the player option at year five isn't really the issue.  I suspect the real issue for MM was the vesting options in years 9 and 10.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on player evals before this.

 

y tho

[Jack Parkman]

11 minutes ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

y tho

Because of this: 

M'Kay??? 

I had to take a somewhat positive viewpoint otherwise what is the point????

[smellysox]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

not at all what he said. he said he doesn't know if it'll be this off-season or not but they will spend it on someone big... these guys just don't get it. This was the biggest fish.

You're absolutely right!  We have seen the free agents for the next 2 years. We know who they are and there is no one - not even close - to Harper/Machado. 2 guys about to enter their prime.  This was their chance. They were blindsided by the Padres.  And Sadly, Rick, Kenny, and Jerry STILL don't understand why Manny didn't choose the Sox.

[HeHatesShe]

4 hours ago, JuliusO1274 said:

The key issue is the player opt out. Hahns comments suggest they are not fond of them because they are exclusively player beneficial hence the reason the Sox offer to Manny did not include any. This was likely one of the main nails in the coffin at our chances of signing him. The opt out he got from San Diego was after the 5th year, I still don't understand why the White Sox would care if Manny came and raked for 5 years and then opted out. We would of had him in his prime during the years we are hoping to contend.

I agree completely with the opt out. If they indeed put forth an offer of 8 for $250m, then 10 for $300 was actually an 8 year discount. If he opts out after 5, you save money during the 5 years, you make your fanbase happy, you increase attendance for 5 years, you jumpstart the rebuild, you get a gold glove all star at a position where you don't have a lot of minor league prospects for 5 years,  you don't even come close to having to pay him for years 9 and 10, and you don't even come close to the "$300 million level."

Hard to see how that is "exclusively beneficial to the player."

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, HeHatesShe said:

I agree completely with the opt out. If they indeed put forth an offer of 8 for $250m, then 10 for $300 was actually an 8 year discount. If he opts out after 5, you save money during the 5 years, you make your fanbase happy, you increase attendance for 5 years, you jumpstart the rebuild, you get a gold glove all star at a position where you don't have a lot of minor league prospects for 5 years,  you don't even come close to having to pay him for years 9 and 10, and you don't even come close to the "$300 million level."

Hard to see how that is "exclusively beneficial to the player."

Agreed.  If the opt-out isn’t until 5 years into the deal, I don’t understand the hesitation to offer one.  An opt-out after only 2-3 years would be mostly beneficial to the player but 5 years is reasonable and could save the team a lot of money on the back-end of the deal but they would still receive 5 years of a premium talent.

[GreatScott82]

8 hours ago, YouGottaBeBleepingMe said:

Great post.

Here are the White Sox standings since 2013 with Rick Hahn at the helm: 

2013- 63-99 (non-rebuild)

2014- 73-89 (non-rebuild) 

2015- 76-86 (non-rebuild)

2016- 78-84 (non-rebuild) 

2017- 67-95 (rebuild)

2018- 62-100 (rebuild) 

You would think with all of those losing records even before the acclaimed rebuild, the White Sox would have more prospect depth to show for it with all of those high draft picks. Scouting and development within this organization has been really bad over the years. Professional scouts have been brutal as well. Hence many of their free agent acquisitions fail to work out. We've encountered 6 losing seasons in a row and this will be the 7th. If it takes 5 consecutive losing 'rebuilding' years to reap the benefits of a winning roster, than we shouldn't expect a winning product until 2022. That would be 10 consecutive years of losing records. And yet JR, RH and KW will all still be around.... claiming not free agent is worth X dollars blah, blah, blah. Pathetic.

Edited February 21, 2019 by GreatScott82

[Sarava]

10 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said:

Here are the White Sox standings since 2013 with Rick Hahn at the helm: 

2013- 63-99 (non-rebuild)

2014- 73-89 (non-rebuild) 

2015- 76-86 (non-rebuild)

2016- 78-84 (non-rebuild) 

2017- 67-95 (rebuild)

2018- 62-100 (rebuild) 

You would think with all of those losing records even before the acclaimed rebuild, the White Sox would have more prospect depth to show for it with all of those high draft pick. Scouting and development within this organization has been really bad over the years. Professional scouts have been brutal as well. Hence many of their free agent acquisitions fail to work out. We've encountered 6 losing seasons in a row and this will the 7th. If it takes 5 consecutive losing 'rebuilding' years to reap the benefits of a winning roster, than we shouldn't expect a winning product until 2022. That would be 10 years of consecutive losing records. And yet JR, RH and KW will all still be around...... pathetic.

Good post. It's pathetic how little prospect depth the Sox have with all those losing seasons. 

Jerry turns 83 next Monday. You have to wonder how much longer he has left here. That could affect not only him, but his two stooges KW and Hahn.

[daa84]

33 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said:

Here are the White Sox standings since 2013 with Rick Hahn at the helm: 

2013- 63-99 (non-rebuild)

2014- 73-89 (non-rebuild) 

2015- 76-86 (non-rebuild)

2016- 78-84 (non-rebuild) 

2017- 67-95 (rebuild)

2018- 62-100 (rebuild) 

You would think with all of those losing records even before the acclaimed rebuild, the White Sox would have more prospect depth to show for it with all of those high draft picks. Scouting and development within this organization has been really bad over the years. Professional scouts have been brutal as well. Hence many of their free agent acquisitions fail to work out. We've encountered 6 losing seasons in a row and this will be the 7th. If it takes 5 consecutive losing 'rebuilding' years to reap the benefits of a winning roster, than we shouldn't expect a winning product until 2022. That would be 10 consecutive years of losing records. And yet JR, RH and KW will all still be around.... claiming not free agent is worth X dollars blah, blah, blah. Pathetic.

Great post. We’ve been bad for a really long time now. I’ve seen nothing out of the current management to think they are the ones that should be in charge of the rebuild. People have thrown out comparisons to the Astros (myself included) because they recently rebuilt, but the FOs could not be more polar opppsite. They are innovative and progressive, and we run an antiquated model

[JoshPR]

10 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Dallas Keuchel was almost out of baseball - he was Giolito bad his first year in the league. 

This forum is becoming cancerous. It's one thing to be disappointed; it's another to be overly doom and gloom about everything.

How about the late Roy Halladay... Taking about bad his first year.....

[Timmy U]

1 hour ago, GreatScott82 said:

Here are the White Sox standings since 2013 with Rick Hahn at the helm: 

2013- 63-99 (non-rebuild)

2014- 73-89 (non-rebuild) 

2015- 76-86 (non-rebuild)

2016- 78-84 (non-rebuild) 

2017- 67-95 (rebuild)

2018- 62-100 (rebuild) 

You would think with all of those losing records even before the acclaimed rebuild, the White Sox would have more prospect depth to show for it with all of those high draft picks. Scouting and development within this organization has been really bad over the years. Professional scouts have been brutal as well. Hence many of their free agent acquisitions fail to work out. We've encountered 6 losing seasons in a row and this will be the 7th. If it takes 5 consecutive losing 'rebuilding' years to reap the benefits of a winning roster, than we shouldn't expect a winning product until 2022. That would be 10 consecutive years of losing records. And yet JR, RH and KW will all still be around.... claiming not free agent is worth X dollars blah, blah, blah. Pathetic.

They've also been extremely unlucky/too good in September.  With those records, they've picked first zero times, second zero times. They've even sucked at sucking.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Harper2Sox said:

Agreed.  If the opt-out isn’t until 5 years into the deal, I don’t understand the hesitation to offer one.  An opt-out after only 2-3 years would be mostly beneficial to the player but 5 years is reasonable and could save the team a lot of money on the back-end of the deal but they would still receive 5 years of a premium talent.

Because they truly did not understand modern baseball contracts or player valuations. They thought that 8/$250 was doing him a favor and that no one else was going to even come close to that. The Phillies were somewhere around that level, willing to go higher, but not to $300, but the White Sox didn't understand that. In their eyes, why would they need to offer an opt-out when their offer was so superior to everyone else's and a team would have to be crazy to pay any guy that much?

[WBWSF]

1) This has become the biggest PR disaster the White Sox  has had since the White Flag Trade. The attendance for the following 2 seasons was 1.2 million each season after the trade. The team didn't start drawing decently again until the 2000 season when they won the division. Last years attendance was 1.6 million. I would think its going to be alot lower this coming season.

2) Hahn has said that the money not spent on Machado will be spent eventually. Will it be spent on decent players ? Or will it be put in the owner/investors pockets and spent by them?

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, WBWSF said:

1) This has become the biggest PR disaster the White Sox  has had since the White Flag Trade. The attendance for the following 2 seasons was 1.2 million each season after the trade. The team didn't start drawing decently again until the 2000 season when they won the division. Last years attendance was 1.6 million. I would think its going to be alot lower this coming season.

2) Hahn has said that the money not spent on Machado will be spent eventually. Will it be spent on decent players ? Or will it be put in the owner/investors pockets and spent by them?

They’ll spend the money, just on something far less impactful than Machado.

[Lillian]

8 hours ago, JuliusO1274 said:

The key issue is the player opt out. Hahns comments suggest they are not fond of them because they are exclusively player beneficial hence the reason the Sox offer to Manny did not include any. This was likely one of the main nails in the coffin at our chances of signing him. The opt out he got from San Diego was after the 5th year, I still don't understand why the White Sox would care if Manny came and raked for 5 years and then opted out. We would of had him in his prime during the years we are hoping to contend.

Not only would we have had him for his prime, but it would have helped to keep him motivated, which is something that I have often emphasized. To me, opt outs are a potentially positive component, for ownership, of these long term contracts. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Lillian

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They’ll spend the money, just on something far less impactful than Machado.

On 3-4 veterans on the wrong side of 30 who fall into the B/C tier of free agents.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

On 3-4 veterans on the wrong side of 30 who fall into the B/C tier of free agents.

Sox fall short on brand name players. Then spend money on knock offs who aren't as good and you need more of. Hahn's free agent signing list speaks volumes. He's a bright guy. He can get a job doing almost anything with his brain. Generally managing a MLB team seems to be something he doesn't have the correct aptitude to do. I don't know how much proof anyone needs. 

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Sox fall short on brand name players. Then spend money on knock offs who aren't as good and you need more of. Hahn's free agent signing list speaks volumes. He's a bright guy. He can get a job doing almost anything with his brain. Generally managing a MLB team seems to be something he doesn't have the correct aptitude to do. I don't know how much proof anyone needs. 

He’s no Quin Snyder.  Similar educations, but Snyder went through the most difficult series of ups and downs you can imagine and came out on the other side.  Snyder has actually experienced real success on both the court and in coaching.  

What actual adversity has Hahn had to actually undergo in his life?   He hasn’t yet been forced to deal with his failures, or even acknowledge them.   He probably thinks he did JR a favor by putting them organization in a position where they had no logical choice left but to completely rebuild.

Edited February 21, 2019 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

14 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

On 3-4 veterans on the wrong side of 30 who fall into the B/C tier of free agents.

 And not one of them faced AL pitching or faced AL hitters....