Dick Allen Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Here's some perspective. Nick Carfado dropped dead at Red Sox camp today. He was 62. RIP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylo Kneehigh Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 So nobody here knows what tongue in cheek means? Or playing devils advocate? Just wanna stew in misery instead of viewing something that has already happened a bit differently than raw emotions dictate to you? So be it. The point of the post was for catharsis. Subtly is indicative of intelligence, but it seems most have taken my OP as literal. For those that can't tell the difference: Yes I would love for the Sox to have signed either or both, despite the money. Yes they would be legitimized in the very biased sports media. Yes either of Machado or Harper would make winning far more likely in the future than it does now. All the benefits of having a superstar locked into a position for multiple years is not to be denied. But it's over a done with. No use in crying over spilt milk. The issue we all have now is that it seems more milk will be spilt in the future due to obvious ineptitudes of the front office. But again, that wasn't the point of the post. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Worldbreaker Palk said: So nobody here knows what tongue in cheek means? Or playing devils advocate? Just wanna stew in misery instead of viewing something that has already happened a bit differently than raw emotions dictate to you? So be it. The point of the post was for catharsis. Subtly is indicative of intelligence, but it seems most have taken my OP as literal. For those that can't tell the difference: Yes I would love for the Sox to have signed either or both, despite the money. Yes they would be legitimized in the very biased sports media. Yes either of Machado or Harper would make winning far more likely in the future than it does now. All the benefits of having a superstar locked into a position for multiple years is not to be denied. But it's over a done with. No use in crying over spilt milk. The issue we all have now is that it seems more milk will be spilt in the future due to obvious ineptitudes of the front office. But again, that wasn't the point of the post. If some of us want to complain about it in the Machado thread, then cool. If you don't want to read it, don't go in there if you don't want to vent about this dog shit front office anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylo Kneehigh Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: If some of us want to complain about it in the Machado thread, then cool. If you don't want to read it, don't go in there if you don't want to vent about this dog shit front office anymore. Agreed, that's why I started a separate thread. I'm not looking to kick a fellow fan while we are down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Worldbreaker Palk said: Agreed, that's why I started a separate thread. I'm not looking to kick a fellow fan while we are down. I appreciate that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Reason for optimism...how many premium FA signings did the Royals and Astros make during their successful rebuilds that ultimately resulted in a WS title? It can still be done even if the FA signings are “second tier” talent. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Reason for optimism...how many premium FA signings did the Royals and Astros make during their successful rebuilds that ultimately resulted in a WS title? It can still be done even if the FA signings are “second tier” talent. Shields was the main one for KC, but he was acquired by trade. It was mostly the secondary bullpen pieces with that particular team. Infante, Morales, Chris Young, Madson, Medlen, Vargas, Blanton were all complimentary pieces...Kendrys Morales was probably the key addition offensively. Gurriel, Aoki, Reddick and Beltran for the Astros...traded for Verlander to push them over the top. Morton, Gregerson and McHugh came from outside the organization. Edited February 21, 2019 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 If the Sox signedManny Machado to that contract he wanted and he comes here and absolutely flops, there would be the same amount of outrage with the front office as they are getting right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 There is no way anyone can spin this outside of Jerry literally being cheap. I am not buying anything else. He did it, keeping Eloy down for control 7yrs down the line, and he did it in the Machado offer. For the life of me, I am not understand why a 93/94yr old man is worried about the potential of the final 2 years of Machado's contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Scoots said: If the Sox signedManny Machado to that contract he wanted and he comes here and absolutely flops, there would be the same amount of outrage with the front office as they are getting right now. This is complete bs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, fathom said: This is complete bs No it isn't. He's right and you know it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No it isn't. He's right and you know it. If he flopped here, people would be cancelling their season tickets? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No it isn't. He's right and you know it. No, he's wrong. That signing sells tickets. That signing energizes a fan base. That signing makes future signings on A+ free agents more doable. It changes the course on the entire future of the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, fathom said: If he flopped here, people would be cancelling their season tickets? Yes. It wouldn't happen immediately, but 3-5 years from now. Edited February 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, fathom said: If he flopped here, people would be cancelling their season tickets? Look, the Sox have dug themselves in this hole by the awful seasons they have had over the last decade plus. This whole Machado debacle is definitely magnified times a million by the results of the decisions that have been made by the front office. My point is, people will find something to get angry about. They will b**** and whine and b**** some more about something "stupid" the front office did. Guess what, at the end of the day, how many fans they didn't already have are they really losing after not getting him? Maybe they've lost out on some they might have gained, but when you really get down to it, we are all staying. We are all going to be here on Opening Day just as excited as ever, looking forward to Eloy Day. No one is leaving because of someone the Sox never got and really weren't even expected to get until, what, November 2018? Sorry, this whole thing is just stupid. They are still rebuilding, they will still be a couple years away from contention with or without him. Enjoy the process. Watch guys like Anderson and Moncada develop into their potentials. There will be more free agent additions in the future. Just because this one guy, who yes I UNDERSTAND is a generational talent, doesn't sign, doesn't mean that there won't be future additions that ultimately make this future team a champion. We need to stop acting like Machado was our savior. In my opinion, the only way Hahn deserves to be ridiculed and fired is if, and ONLY if, this rebuild totally flops. And that is AT LEAST 3-5 years away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, soxfan49 said: No, he's wrong. That signing sells tickets. That signing energizes a fan base. That signing makes future signings on A+ free agents more doable. It changes the course on the entire future of the organization. Padres website crashed because of Manny jersey seekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Shields was the main one for KC, but he was acquired by trade. It was mostly the secondary bullpen pieces with that particular team. Infante, Morales, Chris Young, Madson, Medlen, Vargas, Blanton were all complimentary pieces...Kendrys Morales was probably the key addition offensively. Gurriel, Aoki, Reddick and Beltran for the Astros...traded for Verlander to push them over the top. Morton, Gregerson and McHugh came from outside the organization. Yep, exactly. When the likes of Morales and Reddick are your biggest FA acquisitions (not even what I would consider second tier guys), it just goes to show you can win a title without the mega star FA signings of Manny and Harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, soxfan49 said: No, he's wrong. That signing sells tickets. That signing energizes a fan base. That signing makes future signings on A+ free agents more doable. It changes the course on the entire future of the organization. Both statements are not mutually exclusive. The issue is that if Machado signed and flopped the org would use it as an excuse to be cheap, and wouldn't help out the team in other areas, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Scoots said: Look, the Sox have dug themselves in this hole by the awful seasons they have had over the last decade plus. This whole Machado debacle is definitely magnified times a million by the results of the decisions that have been made by the front office. My point is, people will find something to get angry about. They will b**** and whine and b**** some more about something "stupid" the front office did. Guess what, at the end of the day, how many fans they didn't already have are they really losing after not getting him? Maybe they've lost out on some they might have gained, but when you really get down to it, we are all staying. We are all going to be here on Opening Day just as excited as ever, looking forward to Eloy Day. No one is leaving because of someone the Sox never got and really weren't even expected to get until, what, November 2018? Sorry, this whole thing is just stupid. They are still rebuilding, they will still be a couple years away from contention with or without him. Enjoy the process. Watch guys like Anderson and Moncada develop into their potentials. There will be more free agent additions in the future. Just because this one guy, who yes I UNDERSTAND is a generational talent, doesn't sign, doesn't mean that there won't be future additions that ultimately make this future team a champion. We need to stop acting like Machado was our savior. In my opinion, the only way Hahn deserves to be ridiculed and fired is if, and ONLY if, this rebuild totally flops. And that is AT LEAST 3-5 years away. I know a significant number of people that have tried to cancel their season tickets. I have never seen a fan base lose so much faith in how their team is run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Both statements are not mutually exclusive. The issue is that if Machado signed and flopped the org would use it as an excuse to be cheap, and wouldn't help out the team in other areas, etc. Rather sign and then be cheap than be cheap and don’t sign at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) Just because we survived Dunn and LaRoche and Cabrera doesn't mean the fans won't have a red line at some point. In this case, they simply have to have a playoff-caliber team in 2021/2022. Zero excuses, and a lot of fans will be voting no with their wallets until that happens... Edited February 22, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Padres website crashed because of Manny jersey seekers I'm agreeing with you 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Both statements are not mutually exclusive. The issue is that if Machado signed and flopped the org would use it as an excuse to be cheap, and wouldn't help out the team in other areas, etc. And what if he was awesome? Right away people are defending the organization because "well, he might flop." He also may not. He's 26, coming off of a .905 OPS and has won 2 gold gloves. The odds are that he continues to improve and play great ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, fathom said: Rather sign and then be cheap than be cheap and don’t sign at all. So would I, but that doesn't change the fact that if Machado flopped like Heyward, the fans would be b****ing for the next decade and the consequences would be disastrous. It's possible that the org looks at this the way that old school football coaches looked at passing: If they chase a big FA, there are three possible outcomes, and two of them are bad. Edited February 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Rather sign and then be cheap than be cheap and don’t sign at all. But you have no idea if they won't sign at all. There are still some big free agent classes coming. Just because they failed to convert on this one (like Hahn said might happen) doesn't mean they won't spend a significant amount of money here in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, fathom said: I know a significant number of people that have tried to cancel their season tickets. I have never seen a fan base lose so much faith in how their team is run. Which honestly doesn't suprise me as we are right in the thick of a rebuild. The only way this team is going to gain fans is by consistently winning. With that, they are making the sacrifice of losing fans by rebuilding. Losing more now to hopefully gain more in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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