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103 mph screwball

Eloy opening day if he earns it

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2 hours ago, heirdog said:

He earned it last summer and didn’t get a call-up.  If you are willing to endure months of resentment from the player and criticism from outsiders, you can last another couple weeks.  Or you are just dumb...

But all is well because Eloy was placated by Hahn’s visit and signing his brother Enoy, who probably doesn’t belong on any MiLB field.  We know how well the friends and family plan works...

Enoy is a youngster maybe 18 and won't be around for a while maybe DSL or AZ ball.

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Honestly, I do not understand what you are saying at all. 

If you call up Eloy late enough in the season to the point where he is super 2 eligible instead (or even after!) that year would not count as a full year of service time and you would get 7 years of control. Obviously, if you call him up in 2018 that 7th year of control will come one year earlier than if you called him up in 2019 (after a certain date as both of you are so keen to point out). The number of your years of control do not change! That is all I am saying.

The dates of those years of control can obviously be changed when a player is called up. We all understand everything about this situation, but since I said that the White Sox could have called up Eloy when he was ready as a player instead of gaming the system you are pretending I don't. I even acknowledged multiple times that I am against calling up Eloy to start the next year as it would make not calling him up last year way dumber.

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2 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

If you call up Eloy late enough in the season to the point where he is super 2 eligible instead (or even after!) that year would not count as a full year of service time and you would get 7 years of control. Obviously, if you call him up in 2018 that 7th year of control will come one year earlier than if you called him up in 2019 (after a certain date as both of you are so keen to point out). The number of your years of control do not change! That is all I am saying.

The dates of those years of control can obviously be changed when a player is called up. We all understand everything about this situation, but since I said that the White Sox could have called up Eloy when he was ready as a player instead of gaming the system you are pretending I don't. I even acknowledged multiple times that I am against calling up Eloy to start the next year as it would make not calling him up last year way dumber.

The Super 2 date is a different date from the one that delays his free agency. The Super-2 date determines whether he is eligible for arbitration 4 times versus 3. April 12 determines whether he hits FA at the end of 2024 or 2025. The extra year of control is decided in April, not at the Super 2 deadline. 

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

The Super 2 date is a different date from the one that delays his free agency. The Super-2 date determines whether he is eligible for arbitration 4 times versus 3. April 12 determines whether he hits FA at the end of 2024 or 2025. The extra year of control is decided in April, not at the Super 2 deadline.  

Congrats

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15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Honestly, I do not understand what you are saying at all. 

Apparently I don't either. 

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You guys are both saying because the White Sox would control Eloy's service time in a less optimal fashion (ie becoming a free agent one year earlier by being called up in 2018 instead of 2019) that the White Sox would lose a year of control. I am saying that isn't true, because they would still have gotten 7 years of control. This is insane to me that you both continue to respond. If you think I am a crazy person then just stop responding lol.

This is because I said the White Sox are not able to play the moral high ground card after not calling him up in 2018. That Eloy was ready to be called up in September of 2018 for baseball ability reasons alone is objectively true. Whether or not that makes sense for the White Sox as a baseball team is another matter entirely.

Edited by TomPickle

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5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Every single team in major league baseball would do the same thing that the White Sox and the Blue Jays are going to do.  Every. Single. One.

Eloy may not like it, but I doubt he's going to hang it over the Sox heads 7 years down the line.  If he is as good as people hope he is, he isn't resigning with the  Sox anyhow.

The Sox also reportedly offered Eloy a contract extension late last summer and would have brought him up then.  He, understandably, rejected that.  So, it was partially his call. 

I believe Boston promoted Benintendi from AA and Betts went right from ST. I also think Yankees's Judge got promoted from ST.  

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8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why the HECK is this even a debate worthy of having?

It's not.  You hold him down /thread

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I get what hes saying. You get 7 years of control whether its may of 2018 or 2019.

Just by starting in 2018 hed hit fa 1 year earlier, but you still had the same amount of control.

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6 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I get what hes saying. You get 7 years of control whether its may of 2018 or 2019.

Just by starting in 2018 hed hit fa 1 year earlier, but you still had the same amount of control.

The point is, Eloy playing in he minors a few weeks into this season means jack.  The Sox aren’t winning anything this year.  There is no reason for him to be on the opening day roster.  We are a team who won’t go 10 and $300 million on two 26 year old future Hall of Famers so we need to milk Eloy for everything he is worth.

Edited by Harper2Sox

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Just now, Harper2Sox said:

The point is, Eloy playing in he minors a few weeks into this season means jack.  The Sox aren’t winning anything this year.  There is no reason for him to be on the opening day roster.

Of course he wont start in mlb. That goes without saying.

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3 hours ago, TomPickle said:

You guys are both saying because the White Sox would control Eloy's service time in a less optimal fashion (ie becoming a free agent one year earlier by being called up in 2018 instead of 2019) that the White Sox would lose a year of control. I am saying that isn't true, because they would still have gotten 7 years of control. This is insane to me that you both continue to respond. If you think I am a crazy person then just stop responding lol.

This is because I said the White Sox are not able to play the moral high ground card after not calling him up in 2018. That Eloy was ready to be called up in September of 2018 for baseball ability reasons alone is objectively true. Whether or not that makes sense for the White Sox as a baseball team is another matter entirely.

MLB player are free agents after 6 FULL years of service, not 7. So if he breaks camp he will be free agent in 6 years.  If they wait until mid April, he will not accumulate enough service time this year to count as a year.  Then he is here for 6 years beyond the 2019 season.  The actual subject of the thread is Eloy breaking camp, no one is talking about 2018.  

Another matter entirely is actually this moral debate you're having with nobody.

Edited by restinpiss
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It makes no business sense to buy your wife a wedding ring either.  It’s the gesture!

Eloy has the young guys envisioning a World Series with the Sox.  He will be the leader.  He will be the face of the franchise.  Eloy is special and deserves the gesture.  Hahn flew down to meet his family.  It was a gesture of respect.  If he EARNS It, start him opening day is the right gesture.

White Sox talk about loyalty and being like a family.  Prove it.  Treat Eloy the way you would want to be treated yourself!.  It won’t be a total waste of money.  You will recoup money selling tickets in April.  You might get him to sign an extension that gives you the year back.  He might be more likely to stay when he is a free agent.   You might get good publicity.  You might make a work stoppage slightly less likely.  You might gain the goodwill of future free agents.  You will piss off Soxtalk.  And I it might not pay off monetarily.  But, it’s the right way to treat the man that we already call The Bess. 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, 103 mph screwball said:

It makes no business sense to buy your wife a wedding ring either.  It’s the gesture!

Eloy has the young guys envisioning a World Series with the Sox.  He will be the leader.  He will be the face of the franchise.  Eloy is special and deserves the gesture.  Hahn flew down to meet his family.  It was a gesture of respect.  If he EARNS It, start him opening day is the right gesture.

White Sox talk about loyalty and being like a family.  Prove it.  Treat Eloy the way you would want to be treated yourself!.  It won’t be a total waste of money.  You will recoup money selling tickets in April.  You might get him to sign an extension that gives you the year back.  He might be more likely to stay when he is a free agent.   You might get good publicity.  You might make a work stoppage slightly less likely.  You might gain the goodwill of future free agents.  You will piss off Soxtalk.  And I it might not pay off monetarily.  But, it’s the right way to treat the man that we already call The Bess. 

 

 

 

I thought they'd already offered Eloy a huge extension which had been summarily rejected?

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21 minutes ago, restinpiss said:

MLB player are free agents after 6 FULL years of service, not 7. So if he breaks camp he will be free agent in 6 years.  If they wait until mid April, he will not accumulate enough service time this year to count as a year.  Then he is here for 6 years beyond the 2019 season.  The actual subject of the thread is Eloy breaking camp, no one is talking about 2018.  

Another matter entirely is actually this moral debate you're having with nobody.

look at this post:

Thank you though for being yet another person in this thread explaining something to me that I clearly understand.

 

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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kris-bryant-vents-about-servicetime-manipulation-its-awful-010426518.html

Kris Bryant vents about service time manipulation, "It's awful."

 

“It’s awful,” Bryant said. “So awful. It’s going to happen this year and it happens every year. I could understand it if you go out and have a rough spring training where you don’t look ready. But there’s certain people who put the time and the effort into the offseason so that they do show up to spring training and they prove that they’re ready to go. I feel like you should be rewarded for that.”

“They’re finding a loophole in the system,” Bryant said. “It doesn’t make it right. It kind of seems like the easy way out rather than showing someone that we’re going to reward what you’ve done in spring and what you’ve done in the offseason. ‘Here you go, you get Opening Day.’ That’d be pretty cool.”

When Bryant says “it’s going to happen this year,” he’s talking about Toronto Blue Jays prospect Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Chicago White Sox outfielder Eloy Jimenez. Both players enter spring training as two of the best prospects in the game. Everyone knows neither will open the season in the majors.

Edited by caulfield12

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I prefer they keep him down until the approximate super 2 deadline

  • Haha 1

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11 hours ago, 103 mph screwball said:

Then plan on him leaving.  Don't get too attached.

Eloy will be pissed but he will go to the highest bidder in 7 years. If that is the sox he will sign, if it is someone else he will sign there.

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12 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

If Eloy won't stay with the Sox then why not trade him for a haul of prospects? :booty

The Indians' dilemma with Lindor and Jose Ramirez...

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4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The Indians' dilemma with Lindor and Jose Ramirez...

In a couple of years. Lindor has 3 years of control and Ramirez 5.

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9 hours ago, TomPickle said:

look at this post:

Thank you though for being yet another person in this thread explaining something to me that I clearly understand.

 

I suppose a compromise would be to offer a one year extension at some point. 

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