KW: "It's a shame" the Sox are being portrayed as cheap

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It honestly sounds to me like Rick Hahn is pissed off with the organization. I have felt this way since this all went down. Rick feels betrayed. He said things that he was told and thought that ownership didnt cash. He looks like a complete moron because of that. Kenny is Jerry's lapdog and he's defending Jerry until the end but Rick doesnt seem as all in with accepting Jerry's financial choices. It doesn't excuse Rick but I feel like hes made it very clear that this wasnt what he wanted.

He's our version of Colin Powell...minus the exceptional/meritorious service record, lol.

You can write that opinion all you want, but we won't have any supporting evidence unless he resigns and writes a tell-all book after he is out of baseball about what really went on behind the scenes.  Since that's not in his nature, we'll never really get the whole truth.

I mean...can you really imagine Hahn saying to KW and JR, "if you're not serious about signing Manny Machado after I've worked so hard to sell it to the fanbase all offseason, then I'm out of here and you guys can face the music..."

No, it's easier to imagine his looking pissed off, then smirking and trying to figure out how he can possibly talk his way out of this one.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

This quote from Margulus today is so true and makes it that much more unacceptable and painful.

 

The White Sox are spending less on their payroll than they did 10 years ago despite the franchise tripling its Forbes valuation over that time,

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

He's our version of Colin Powell...minus the exceptional/meritorious service record, lol.

You can write that opinion all you want, but we won't have any supporting evidence unless he resigns and writes a tell-all book after he is out of baseball about what really went on behind the scenes.  Since that's not in his nature, we'll never really get the whole truth.

I mean...can you really imagine Hahn saying to KW and JR, "if you're not serious about signing Manny Machado after I've worked so hard to sell it to the fanbase all offseason, then I'm out of here and you guys can face the music..."

No, it's easier to imagine his looking pissed off, then smirking and trying to figure out how he can possibly talk his way out of this one.

I'd respect him a lot for this. 

I believe Rick would give manny 10 at 300. I have no reason to think otherwise. Rick knew. Rick has made mistakes but Rick would have given manny the money.

[Jose Abreu]

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This quote from Margulus today is so true and makes it that much more unacceptable and painful.

 

The White Sox are spending less on their payroll than they did 10 years ago despite the franchise tripling its Forbes valuation over that time,

That's even worse when you consider that inflation alone should cause that number to increase dramatically over such a span. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

That's even worse when you consider that inflation alone should cause that number to increase dramatically over such a span. 

Yes but I hate the word cheap because they can defend against that. They had top 5 payrolls in baseball when they were competing. The Sox are scared in free agency- not cheap. They're scared of failing and its laughable because they've been failing outside of it for a while and should try and change something. 

I think they're scared more than cheap. They'll spend top 5 money on a competitive roster but they wonr spend top 5 money on a top player. Risk averse. Jerry cant stand the thought of someone getting paid while busting for a decade.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[caulfield12]

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

 

2009 $96 million

2010 $108 million

2011 $129 million

 

2018 $72 million

 

Going by the 17% change in the value of money (aka inflation), we we would reliably expect of $102 million (I averaged out 2009/10) to have risen ten years later to basically $119.5 million, more or less $120.

Eight short years ago, we were at $129 million (the year we signed Dunn to his FA deal).

[shago]

5 hours ago, GermanSoxFan said:

The owner of the Phillies says, ‘oh my god, we have to do this, we can’t let our fanbase down.’”

The owner of the White Sox says, "oh my God, let's raise parking prices"

[shago]

Hahn, Reinsdorf, and Kenny

(Would never offend Curly like that)

[Buehrle>Wood]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

Others have already chimed in, but this is so incredibly wrong. 

It's not. It's correct. Having this perfect insight into how this organization actually thinks is fascinating. Not for the right reasons, but still, it's great. 

[The Sir]

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

They should just change the name of the team to the Chicago Cheap Sox/Bargain Hunters/Bargain Basement Hitmen.

The only countervailing evidence is Luis Robert (and not blowing way past the budget, losing two full classes in LA) and 14 years and counting since 2005 of mid-range and even upper tier payrolls, but probably as poorly spent in terms of $$$/fWAR of any organization in MLB.

Honestly, if JR wasn't protected/shielded/insulated (choose the best term) by the Bulls/MJ and those 6 championships, along with 2005, well, it's just impossible to imagine how ugly it would actually be if this happened and the Sox hadn't won at least one World Series in the recent past.

I'm also quite thankful that Reinsdorf is not nearly as high-profile or flamboyant as George Soros or similar financiers, or the ethnic/religious/anti-Semitism would really be picking up, especially in this current political climate...we've already seen a number of pictures/cartoons of JR swimming in money or bathing in it, but we're edging closer to a danger zone.

KW might not come out and say it, but accusing Jewish owner/s of being cheap or hoarding their money is the equivalent of the Iowa BB announcer Gary Dolphin calling Bruno Fernando "King Kong" in the middle of the paint.  It might be intentional/malicious and is likely subconscious, but it's there, and it's not going away anytime soon.
 

The first thing all White Sox young fans learn about is 1917/1919, Shoeless Joe Jackson and Charles Comiskey.

It's really a shame that this period of time was seized upon by the Yankees...and that we're just as much known for finishing 2nd/being cheap (Veeck and then JR) as we are being one of the most storied franchises in the major leagues.

 

Goodness. Everyone thinks Reinsdorf is cheap because he does things that are cheap, dating all the way back to the ‘94 strike (maybe beyond, that’s a little before my time). Not because he’s Jewish.

Seems like you’re the only one running with this angle.

[Sarava]

Can we trade owners with the Phillies?

[Moan4Yoan]

I heard on The Score that George Ofman reported that Boras came back to the Sox to see if they would offer $330.  The Sox weren’t interested.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

36 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

I heard on The Score that George Ofman reported that Boras came back to the Sox to see if they would offer $330.  The Sox weren’t interested.

Lmao what a joke.

[bmags]

I think Sox are just arrogant and antiquated in their operations.

One of the biggest things is how inefficient they are in money they do hand out while acting like they are the most efficient team just because they never spend market rate on talent worth spending on.

[Middle Buffalo]

Everyone knew they wanted $300 Million. If that was out of the Sox range, why pursue them at all?

They needed to sign Harper as much for what he would have brought off the field as what he does on it. I just went to the ESPN Chicago page, and the most recent story about the Sox in the main page was 7 days ago when they signed Santana.

The Sox would be a national story right now. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Middle Buffalo

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It honestly sounds to me like Rick Hahn is pissed off with the organization. I have felt this way since this all went down. Rick feels betrayed. He said things that he was told and thought that ownership didnt cash. He looks like a complete moron because of that. Kenny is Jerry's lapdog and he's defending Jerry until the end but Rick doesnt seem as all in with accepting Jerry's financial choices. It doesn't excuse Rick but I feel like hes made it very clear that this wasnt what he wanted.

Yeah, no way bro.  Hahn is just as guilty as the rest of these clowns.  Maybe you missed the entire offseason, but Hahn hyped up things to a dangerous level by saying we had “unprecedented financial flexibility” and “I can certainly assure you the resources will be available” to add big time free agents.  Even at SoxFest the dude was making strong indications that we were a legit threat by saying things like “if for whatever reason we wind up not converting, I will certainly be disappointed”.  

These are not the type of comments you make to your fanbase when the best you can do is at least $50M below market for Machado and have to bow out of the Harper sweepstakes when he got way less than many had anticipated.  You can blame Jerry and say Hahn had to operate within his parameters, but if that’s the case don’t even attempt a run at these guys or at the very least do not hype up your lame efforts through the media.  Hahn (& KW) brought this on himself by promising the world and delivering nothing.  

And the absolute worst part is the clowns claim to have spent two years planning out these pursuits.  Like are they fucking serious?  They had two years to evaluate if a pursuit was worthwhile and ultimately decided to go for it despite having hard limits well below perceived market value.  They basically showed up to a high rollers table in Vegas and were surprised that their $10 bill doesn’t get them a “seat the table”.  Hahn does not get a pass for this shit.

[Unknown]

Hey KW, "it's a shame" that we suck every year. 

[Big Hurtin]

How many times has the White Sox front office disappointed you?

 

 

[GermanSoxFan]

White Sox: Complain about bein irrelevant

Phillies and Padres sign two marquee free agents and get unprecedented national attention 

 

White Sox: 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes but I hate the word cheap because they can defend against that. They had top 5 payrolls in baseball when they were competing. The Sox are scared in free agency- not cheap. They're scared of failing and its laughable because they've been failing outside of it for a while and should try and change something. 

I think they're scared more than cheap. They'll spend top 5 money on a competitive roster but they wonr spend top 5 money on a top player. Risk averse. Jerry cant stand the thought of someone getting paid while busting for a decade.

You keep talking about spending top 5 money, but when was this?  How many years ago?  

Things change over time and right now Reinsdorf refuses to invest in his product until he has revenue streams to support it.  No other business operates in this manner and it’s the reason we’ll forever be in mired in mediocrity unless we get very lucky with all these young prospects.  Otherwise, the organization will continue to blame the customer for not buying their shitty product and rock out below average payrolls as a result.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Harper2Sox said:

I heard on The Score that George Ofman reported that Boras came back to the Sox to see if they would offer $330.  The Sox weren’t interested.

The sad part is I guarantee he would have chosen the Sox over the Phillies if the money was even.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

White Sox: Complain about bein irrelevant

Phillies and Padres sign two marquee free agents and get unprecedented national attention 

 

White Sox: 

But nine years from now we’ll need that money to extend all these young studs to below market contracts because that’s the price to play for the mighty White Sox!

[Buehrle>Wood]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The sad part is I guarantee he would have chosen the Sox over the Phillies if the money was even.

Yeah. Imagine having to at least partially live in Philadelphia the next 13 years

[fathom]

1 hour ago, Harper2Sox said:

I heard on The Score that George Ofman reported that Boras came back to the Sox to see if they would offer $330.  The Sox weren’t interested.

It’s getting harder to be a Sox fan with each passing hour it seems.

[Lillian]

The fact that no one, anywhere, seems to really be able to defend what management has done, is precisely why I was so confident that they wouldn't do it. I thought; "surely they can't be so obtuse, that they would mess this up so badly, that it would be indefensible". I thought that they would at least offer a contract to Harper, which would provide them with an excuse. If they had offered $300 + million, for any length of time, with an opt out, after year 4, they would have been able to at least argue that they tried. But, for Harper to take a contract, from a team, that he didn't seem to prefer, with no opt outs, while our front office freely admits that they just couldn't go that far, is simply inexplicable. The 13 years is arguably advantageous for the team, because it lowers the annual expenditure, thus providing more protection against the "luxury tax". And that is why not even Hahn, with his ability to spin things, can offer a plausible and reasonable explanation. There just may not be any good explanation, one which doesn't confirm what so many suspected.

Many of us spoke a great deal about the intangible benefits of signing Harper. There was the "Q factor". We argued over just how much his presence could mean in merchandise sales and other off the field benefits. Well, the way that this thing was handled, or should I say "botched," is having the exact opposite effect. Whatever good will the signing might have created, the bad will is likely to eclipse, by several multiples. This front office folly will likely be considered one of the worst chapters in White Sox history, perhaps somewhere between the Black Sox Scandal and the White Flag disaster. It will be interesting to see the repercussions. That's where the fans come in.

The fans are going to react. In this age of social media, the vocal expressions of disgruntled fans will spread and could become quite contagious. The idea of a bill board is too expensive, and will not reach enough fans. I still think that signs, in the ball park, held up by fans, would be more effective and cost almost nothing. They will be seen by other fans, sitting nearby and make it difficult for the TV cameras to avoid. If fans could flood the stands with signs of protest, it would probably get press, as well. Even if the White Sox tried to prohibit them, that cencorship would be publicized. Many fans already enjoy making signs, to hold up at the games. All that would be required here is that they start changing the messages. It's a way for fans to express their anger and frustration, in clever and creative ways. The signs should not contain any profanity, or vulgarity. They should be civil and even polite, while still expressing fair criticism. This is the best way to voice our disapproval of management and ownership. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Lillian