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Signing Luke Heimlich: Acceptable or Quit being a fan worthy?

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Heimlich signed with the Mexican league today. Scouts who saw him pitch at driveline claim he could impact a MLB rotation today in a good way.

Heimlichs story is disturbing and zero tolerance for it is where I stand. His denials are odd - given his pleading guilty. He claims it was based on bad legal advice but I would never plead guilty to something that fucked up if I didnt do it - no matter what.

I say, signing heimlich is an unforgivable sin, what say you?

I do think someone signs him eventually.

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Certainly would be one way to get fans to forget about Machado/Harper! 

Seriously though, fuck no. It's bad PR, and they don't need additional negativity. There are plenty of other arms out there that can make an impact in the future. The whole question on whether he deserves an opportunity is a moral mind fuck of an argument to try to apply reason to. He pleaded guilty - bad legal advice or not, he then tried to cover it up. Who knows what really happened there, but just stay far, far away from that baggage that is going to follow him for the rest of his life. Especially when MLB is so involved in youth programs. Seems like a disaster waiting to happen if he indeed is a molester.  

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2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Heimlich signed with the Mexican league today. Scouts who saw him pitch at driveline claim he could impact a MLB rotation today in a good way.

Heimlichs story is disturbing and zero tolerance for it is where I stand. His denials are odd - given his pleading guilty. He claims it was based on bad legal advice but I would never plead guilty to something that fucked up if I didnt do it - no matter what.

I say, signing heimlich is an unforgivable sin, what say you?

I do think someone signs him eventually.

Him being a minor blurs the issue for me, and the part where you say that you'd "never plead guilty to something that fucked up", not so sure that holds when you're a 15 year old kid and all the adults in your life are telling you to plead guilty because it would all go away in a couple years.  I've got no clue if he did what he was accused of, and I'm not trying to make excuses for it.  But I don't think that something you've done as a minor should be held against a person and be used to keep that person from making the most of themselves as an adult.  

Had he been an adult when the sexual assault was committed then I'd want no part of him on the WSox.  

Edited by ChiSox1917

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Look no further than the Cubs and Russell.  Most Cubs fans want him gone and their front office is making it worse by keeping him around.  This would be a terrible move for the Sox, especially for a front office that is already despised for failing to deliver this offseason. 

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Without getting too political, I think convicted pedophiles should receive the death penalty. So that’s where I stand.

BUT...

Something that mitigates in this case is that Luke was 15. This isn’t a 30 year old who was predating on children. He himself was a child, albeit a slightly more developed one. Still, if an adult had sex with him around the time he did this, we would all pretty much agree that he lacked the ability to properly consent, no matter what words were coming out of his mouth. So how can we look at this situation and say that he had the full mental capacity to understand what he was doing and how insanely wrong it was?

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No way. Also, wasn't the victim his 6-year old niece? Honestly, he should know better even as a teenager.

Edited by soxfan2014

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20 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

No way. Also, wasn't the victim his 6-year old niece? Honestly, he should know better even as a teenager.

That's what makes it even more sick to me. Not only was she essentially a baby, but it was family. 

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7 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

 

Him being a minor blurs the issue for me, and the part where you say that you'd "never plead guilty to something that fucked up", not so sure that holds when you're a 15 year old kid and all the adults in your life are telling you to plead guilty because it would all go away in a couple years.  I've got no clue if he did what he was accused of, and I'm not trying to make excuses for it.  But I don't think that something you've done as a minor should be held against a person and be used to keep that person from making the most of themselves as an adult.  

Had he been an adult when the sexual assault was committed then I'd want no part of him on the WSox.  

 

58 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Without getting too political, I think convicted pedophiles should receive the death penalty. So that’s where I stand.

BUT...

Something that mitigates in this case is that Luke was 15. This isn’t a 30 year old who was predating on children. He himself was a child, albeit a slightly more developed one. Still, if an adult had sex with him around the time he did this, we would all pretty much agree that he lacked the ability to properly consent, no matter what words were coming out of his mouth. So how can we look at this situation and say that he had the full mental capacity to understand what he was doing and how insanely wrong it was?

He was 15. She was 6. SIX YEARS OLD. Unless this guy had a severe mental disability, he ABSOLUTELY knew how wrong it was at 15. At 15 he's taking driver's ed. This isn't an 8-year-old we're talking about here.

Fuck him. He can toil in the Mexican League and then go into some other career. If the Sox sign him, no joke, this is one thing that WILL keep me away from ALL things Sox.

 

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None of us knows what he did do and what he didn't do when he was 15, and none of us knows how the dialogue went between law enforcement and him and his parents.

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Well, I guess I can cross Dos Laredos Tecolotes off my list for replacing the White Sox as my favorite team.

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20 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

 

He was 15. She was 6. SIX YEARS OLD. Unless this guy had a severe mental disability, he ABSOLUTELY knew how wrong it was at 15. At 15 he's taking driver's ed. This isn't an 8-year-old we're talking about here.

Fuck him. He can toil in the Mexican League and then go into some other career. If the Sox sign him, no joke, this is one thing that WILL keep me away from ALL things Sox.

 

Winning a game isn't worth justifying whatever happened here.

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10 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

He was 15. She was 6. SIX YEARS OLD. Unless this guy had a severe mental disability, he ABSOLUTELY knew how wrong it was at 15. At 15 he's taking driver's ed. This isn't an 8-year-old we're talking about here.

I get it, man. And again, I think pedophiles should be killed, so this is a gut wrenching thing for me to have defend in even the slightest way.

If an adult has sex with a 15 year old, it doesn't matter how much the 15 year old "wanted it". It doesn't matter how much the 15 year old is showing signs of maturity. No amount of "well, she's in driver's ed!" or "he came on to ME!" or "she's wise beyond her years!" will save that guy (or gal). We as a society have determined that 15 year olds are not developed enough to make those decisions, and that determination is so stout that we will send that adult to prison for a long time.

So with that in mind, how can we turn around and say that Heimlich was truly developed enough to understand what he was doing? Society says he cannot fully understand sex with you or I, so how can we say he understands it with anyone?

And yeah, I get that this isn't a question of whether he goes to prison or not, but whether he now gets to live his dreams to the fullest. Maybe that's the difference.

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28 minutes ago, The Sir said:

I get it, man. And again, I think pedophiles should be killed, so this is a gut wrenching thing for me to have defend in even the slightest way.

If an adult has sex with a 15 year old, it doesn't matter how much the 15 year old "wanted it". It doesn't matter how much the 15 year old is showing signs of maturity. No amount of "well, she's in driver's ed!" or "he came on to ME!" or "she's wise beyond her years!" will save that guy (or gal). We as a society have determined that 15 year olds are not developed enough to make those decisions, and that determination is so stout that we will send that adult to prison for a long time.

So with that in mind, how can we turn around and say that Heimlich was truly developed enough to understand what he was doing? Society says he cannot fully understand sex with you or I, so how can we say he understands it with anyone?

And yeah, I get that this isn't a question of whether he goes to prison or not, but whether he now gets to live his dreams to the fullest. Maybe that's the difference.

The things you are discussing are not anywhere near the same. The question of an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old is not even in the same area code as ANY age and a 6 year old. Not comparable at all.

The law does not say that a 15-year-old has no judgment or expectations of reasonable behavior. If that was true, we wouldn't be able to try and convict them of crimes, which we do with regularity. You are somehow extending the idea that a 15yo (in some states) can't consent to sex to mean that they are incapable of ANY decisions, and that is not the way the law works at all.

 

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3 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

The law does not say that a 15-year-old has no judgment or expectations of reasonable behavior. If that was true, we wouldn't be able to try and convict them of crimes, which we do with regularity. You are somehow extending the idea that a 15yo (in some states) can't consent to sex to mean that they are incapable of ANY decisions, and that is not the way the law works at all.

 

That's a fair point, and my own stance disgusts me enough that I'm dropping out now.

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Just because he said he really didn't do it now, doesn't mean he really didn't do it. The victim's mother still thinks he did it, and I am sure she knows far about the case than any of us. 

 

I just hope making him a White Sox is never a consideration. I don't care if he's ace material. There are hundreds of 6 year olds in the stands. Them cheering for him would be sickening. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Just because he said he really didn't do it now, doesn't mean he really didn't do it. The victim's mother still thinks he did it, and I am sure she knows far about the case than any of us. 

 

I just hope making him a White Sox is never a consideration. I don't care if he's ace material. There are hundreds of 6 year olds in the stands. Them cheering for him would be sickening. 

 

This is always what I think about re: Heimlich.

I don't think Heimlich should be in jail, he did do it as a minor and he mostly lived up to his punishment as was prescribed.

I don't think that means he should be able to play in major league baseball.

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I 100% think Dayton Moore is going to sign him in a year though. 

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5 minutes ago, bmags said:

I 100% think Dayton Moore is going to sign him in a year though. 

Honestly, yeah I think he will get signed at some point by some rebuilding team even if I think he shouldn't by any MLB team.

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1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Honestly, yeah I think he will get signed at some point by some rebuilding team even if I think he shouldn't by any MLB team.

The team that makes their players watch an anti-porn video is 100% going to be the one that valorizes Heimlich as a good kid that something "unfortunate happened to for all involved" but "he's passed it"

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9 minutes ago, bmags said:

The team that makes their players watch an anti-porn video is 100% going to be the one that valorizes Heimlich as a good kid that something "unfortunate happened to for all involved" but "he's passed it"

Huh?

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