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Look at Ray Ray Run

Signing Luke Heimlich: Acceptable or Quit being a fan worthy?

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He wants to you believe the 6 year old made everything up, or her mother did, and brainwashed the kid so well, her story would hold up, so he had no choice but to plead quilty even though he did nothing wrong. 

 

I suppose it is possible, but not very probable.

 

There is really no reason to take a chance on this guy at all.

Edited by Dick Allen
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9 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like I said, 6 year olds don't make up this stuff.  Adults might, and there is always the chance of coaching, but 15 minutes of talking to a 6 year old would tell you by their answers if they were lying.  They would only be able to regurgitate the story they were told, and not to provide anything outside of that.  The story would change, and not make sense at point, especially as they got off of their talking points.

Again, the rate of this stuff happening in real life is minuscule.  The true reports FAR outpace the false ones.  If there is ever an assumption to be made, it is to believe the kid and not to assume they are lying, just like in rape allegations.

The idea of there being some epidemic of false allegations going on is bullshit put out to protect predators.

I don't know what happened exactly in this case, but the one thing I do know is that neither of my two daughters would have ever been around this man.

100% agreed SS2k5. 

My argument was never against this statement, but rather that a young child is mentally incapable of telling a believable lie, with coaching by an adult. Those are two different statements. My opinion is and always has been that in the incredibly rare cases of false accusations that end in conviction or any other outcome, that the onus falls on the investigator for not doing their job properly and nobody else. Going in this direction is good, and necessary, but......the important thing in the whole process is to come in as neutral as possible. 

Examples recently of investigators doing a good job unearthing false accusations are the Patrick Kane and Jussie Smollett cases. Just because they happened, doesn't mean that it happens all the time, and the opposite is true. Those are exceptions, and not the rule. 

I wish you actually read what I said in the 3rd PM. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He wants to you believe the 6 year old made everything up, or her mother did, and brainwashed the kid so well, her story would hold up, so he had no choice but to plead quilty even though he did nothing wrong. 

 

I suppose it is possible, but not very probable.

 

There is really no reason to take a chance on this guy at all.

Agreed. 

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I guess the moral of the story is there are consequences pleading guilty to crimes. Some even include future employment. If he was a great accountant, I doubt anyone would be outraged if KPMG failed to consider him based on his past. This is no different.

Edited by Dick Allen
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4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I guess the moral of the story is there are consequences pleading guilty to crimes. Some even include future employment. If he was a great accountant, I doubt anyone would be outraged if KPMG failed to consider him based on his past. This is no different.

Yup. 

I want to ask the majority of the people in this thread........Did I say anything completely out of bounds? 

Please. I feel horrible that SS2k5 thinks I'm horrible because I'm actually in agreement with him. This is just a horrible situation and I don't think that anything what I said was out of bounds. In every case where kids make a false accusation against someone there is an adult somewhere pulling the strings, and the great majority of the time the adult becomes outed for their lies. That was and always was the point I was trying to make. Not blaming kids, blaming adults. In Heimlich's case, I don't think that it ever would have come to this point if there was a sinister plot by his ex-sister in law. It would have been exposed during the investigation. No investigator worth their salt would let it get to the point where it did if there was a plot, however plots do happen. The issue is that plots get more publicity because they are so rare, and because people see them when they do occur, they believe they happen much more often than they actually do. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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This thread is irrelevant. If the Sox were to sign him, he'd just end up with Tommy John Surgery, within a week. So what's the point.

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55 minutes ago, Lillian said:

This thread is irrelevant. If the Sox were to sign him, he'd just end up with Tommy John Surgery, within a week. So what's the point.

But at least he's a lefty?

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7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yup. 

I want to ask the majority of the people in this thread........Did I say anything completely out of bounds? 

Please. I feel horrible that SS2k5 thinks I'm horrible because I'm actually in agreement with him. This is just a horrible situation and I don't think that anything what I said was out of bounds. In every case where kids make a false accusation against someone there is an adult somewhere pulling the strings, and the great majority of the time the adult becomes outed for their lies. That was and always was the point I was trying to make. Not blaming kids, blaming adults. In Heimlich's case, I don't think that it ever would have come to this point if there was a sinister plot by his ex-sister in law. It would have been exposed during the investigation. No investigator worth their salt would let it get to the point where it did if there was a plot, however plots do happen. The issue is that plots get more publicity because they are so rare, and because people see them when they do occur, they believe they happen much more often than they actually do. 

You have interesting posts, Jack, but they are kind of wild IMO.

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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

You have interesting posts, Jack, but they are kind of wild IMO.

Please explain. I'm sincerely interested. If I said something weird or out of bounds it wasn't my intention I just think it is naive to think that poisoning of kids by adults with an agenda doesn't happen in rare cases. I don't even think it happened here. 

I agree with SS2k5 in his second post on the subject where he said that any investigator could tell if a kid has been coached into lying in 15 minutes. I just wonder how many times investigators actually run into that? 

99% of what SS2k5 said I actually agree with, and the overwhelming majority of the time he's right. I just think there needs to be a minor dose of skepticism in any investigation, otherwise why investigate? 

Bottom line, sexual assault is a sticky subject and there is an incredible fine line here. I guess I was trying to approach it from a neutral point of view like an investigator should and it is too emotional for most people.  

My beliefs are that

1) An investigator should take an accusation seriously and assume it is credible until proven otherwise

2) They should follow the evidence, and give the accused due process. 

This is going to be my last post in this thread. 

Good luck to all, and I wish I didn't even chime in. I feel like others have said similar things, in a different way, and didn't get attacked like I did.  I'm just going to let this thread go away and pretend it didn't even happen. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack you seem like a good guy. I don't think you meant anything malicious. Don't sweat it.

Thanks. I was a little rattled by that guy's reaction for most of the day, but in the end I know what I believe about the subject and I don't need the validation of a random poster that I've never met, who completely misunderstood what I said, to help me sleep at night. I'll be ok, and I can brush it off. 

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