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What Kind of Rebuild is This?

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They still have time to add that 1 big free agent before all the key pieces are ready to contribute.

 

Look at the cubs rebuild. Their championship team just had Lester as their only big time FA addition. The rest of the team came from within or trade.

 

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14 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

This argument would make a lot of sense if you said top five instead of top ten, were completely unaware of the players’ ages, and didn’t realize that defense exists. 

I was talking strictly hitting. Here are ten hitters better than Machado and Harper and there may even be more:

1)Trout 2)Ramirez 3)Bregman 4)Betts 5)Rendon 6)JD Martinez 7)Altuve 8)Soto 8)Bryant 9)Lindor 10)Votto

 

Edited by Chisox378
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8 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

I was talking strictly hitting. Here are ten hitters better than Machado and Harper and there may even be more:

1)Trout 2)Ramirez 3)Bregman 4)Betts 5)Rendon 6)JD Martinez 7)Altuve 8)Soto 8)Bryant 9)Lindor 10)Votto

 

The logic doesn’t work because the contract is for them as total players, not just hitters. And because it entirely ignores age.

 So citing lumbering DHs in the early to mid thirties as examples for why elite athletes in their mid-20s won’t work out is making a false equivalency.  

Edited by Eminor3rd
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16 minutes ago, 2nd_city_saint787 said:

They still have time to add that 1 big free agent before all the key pieces are ready to contribute.

 

Look at the cubs rebuild. Their championship team just had Lester as their only big time FA addition. The rest of the team came from within or trade.

 

And who would that be?

Edited by mqr

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4 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

The logic doesn’t work because the contract is for them as total players, not just hitters. And because it entirely ignores age.

 So citing lumbering DHs in the early to mid thirties as examples for why elite athletes in their mid-20s won’t work out is making a false equivalency.  

Fair enough, but my point is that they are not even top ten hitters yet they want the most money in the history of the sport.  In my opinion you better be in the top 5 in the league if you want that much money, regardless of age or defense.

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25 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

I was talking strictly hitting. Here are ten hitters better than Machado and Harper and there may even be more:

1)Trout 2)Ramirez 3)Bregman 4)Betts 5)Rendon 6)JD Martinez 7)Altuve 8)Soto 8)Bryant 9)Lindor 10)Votto

 

This is so dumb....

Rendon isn't a better hitter than Machado 

JD Martinez is a DH... 

Soto is currently not a better hitter than Machado

Bryant is not a better hitter than Machado

Votto is 96 and even so is still not a better hitter than Machado.

Lindor is not a better hitter than Machado.. Though I'll say Lindor, Machado and Breg are close..

 

Anyways.. wtf are you smoking

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3 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

This is so dumb....

Rendon isn't a better hitter than Machado 

JD Martinez is a DH... 

Soto is currently not a better hitter than Machado

Bryant is not a better hitter than Machado

Votto is 96 and even so is still not a better hitter than Machado.

Lindor is not a better hitter than Machado.. Though I'll say Lindor, Machado and Breg are close..

 

Anyways.. wtf are you smoking

Ok well thats your opinion, but Id rather have any of those hitters than Machado. Machado is on line with Paul Goldschmidt who may be a top 20 hitter. Look at their stats they are very similiar. I can say Arenado is better than Machado, Story and Machado have very similar stats as well.

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14 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Fair enough, but my point is that they are not even top ten hitters yet they want the most money in the history of the sport.  In my opinion you better be in the top 5 in the league if you want that much money, regardless of age or defense.

If the contracts were for one year, I think that would make sense.

But a tremendous portion of what teams are buying in this case is specifically the mid and late twenties seasons that aren’t available normally. 

Pujols and Cabrera were are arguably the best hitters in the game when they signed, but they were selling years of decline. And their value isn’t as much higher as it seems (than Machado and Harper) becaus eof the defensive difference. 

Also: I think if you focus on the fact that Machado/Harper signed the largest TOTAL guaranteees inbistory, but didn’t really come close to the highest AAV currently in the game, it fits with your mindset a bit more. 

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42 minutes ago, mqr said:

And who would that be?

Who knows, Martinez, Castellanos, Bogaerts, Cole, Sale? Idk. My guess is JD Martinez is a Sox this time next year along with one of the better pitchers on the market. 

 

But again....Cubs rebuild was mainly done from within except for a 31 year old SP and an OF that did little to nothing to help that team win a title.

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4 minutes ago, 2nd_city_saint787 said:

 

Who knows, Martinez, Castellanos, Bogaerts, Cole, Sale? Idk. My guess is JD Martinez is a Sox this time next year along with one of the better pitchers on the market. 

 

But again....Cubs rebuild was mainly done from within except for a 31 year old SP and an OF that did little to nothing to help that team win a title.

The Cubs also pretty much hit on all their top prospect more or less.  That is not a realistic expectation for us.

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32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Cubs also pretty much hit on all their top prospect more or less.  That is not a realistic expectation for us.

Yes, except for Soler, who helped them acquire an excellent closer in Davis.

You can argue that Russell, Almora, Happ and Schwarber have been different levels of disappointing, but they all made it.

Of course, Baez and Rizzo from the previous regime were gifts as well, the pre-existing connection of Epstein to Lester, not to mention the willingness to spend top dollar on coaching staff and scouting.

Imagine the Cubs today with Gleyber Torres, Jimenez and Cease...?

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8 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Yep. The Sixers were a bottom barrel team for like 5 years as a part of their "process". 

The Astros lost 100 plus games three seasons in a row! 

The Sox still have a few tank seasons left before this rebuild starts moving forward with any momentum. 2019 and 2020 should be all about letting the young kids develop and getting top 5 draft picks. 

But look at it from a fan standpoint. The Astros had 3---100 loss seasons and had a below .500 record for 6 straight years before they started winning again.  Last year was the 6th straight year the Sox had a record below .500. So if 2021 is the goal, we will go at least 2 more years than the Astros did. 

Cubs had 5 years below .500 until they turned it around. 

So if we are in year 3 of rebuild, it only means our management was too slow to realize they needed to rebuild. 

Edited by SCCWS
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6 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

But look at it from a fan standpoint. The Astros had 3---100 loss seasons and had a below .500 record for 6 straight years before they started winning again.  Last year was the 6th straight year the Sox had a record below .500. So if 2021 is the goal, we will go at least 2 more years than the Astros did. 

Cubs had 5 years below .500 until they turned it around. 

So if we are in year 3 of rebuild, it only means our management was too slow to realize they needed to rebuild. 

I can just imagine the counterargument...Royals and Pirates and even the Braves in 80’s we’re rebuilding for multiple decades before achieving success.

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Just now, caulfield12 said:

I can just imagine the counterargument...Royals and Pirates and even the Braves in 80’s we’re rebuilding for multiple decades before achieving success.

That's what happens with inept management. 

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8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That's what happens with inept management. 

And they all eventually had to hit on the right GM, coaching/talent development and scouting staffs.

Since Moneyball, we have lost our two niches...keeping players healthy and Cooper.  I guess now it’s Renteria/Vizquel and so many Cuban/Latin players.

Edited by caulfield12

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That's what happens with inept management. 

The fact there haven’t been serious calls for Hahn to be fired and put into the worst GM of all time Hall of Shame illustrates how little the fan base cares anymore.

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58 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Cubs also pretty much hit on all their top prospect more or less.  That is not a realistic expectation for us.

The Cubs made rebuilding look extremely easy. It is not. They were battling the Mets for pennant in year 4 of their rebuild. The Sox will be lucky to be a .500 team next year. 

The two rebuilds are obviously not following the same path. 

 

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4 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

The Cubs made rebuilding look extremely easy. It is not. They were battling the Mets for pennant in year 4 of their rebuild. The Sox will be lucky to be a .500 team next year. 

The two rebuilds are obviously not following the same path. 

 

We traded away our versions of Rizzo/Baez...and did the reverse of adding Lester, which was missing on Harper and Machado and completely deflating the morale of the fanbase, rather than elevating it.

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12 minutes ago, fathom said:

The fact there haven’t been serious calls for Hahn to be fired and put into the worst GM of all time Hall of Shame illustrates how little the fan base cares anymore.

Yes sir. Anger has turned to apathy for many folks. 

JR, KW, and Hahn are pretty much writing the textbook on how to run a major league franchise into the ground. 

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How many years would the rebuild take if these clowns started at the same place Theo did? No talent to get them Moncada and Kopech and Basabe and Lopez and Giolito and Cease and Eloy? 

Why is it they should be on the same timeline?

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5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

How many years would the rebuild take if these clowns started at the same place Theo did? No talent to get them Moncada and Kopech and Basabe and Lopez and Giolito and Cease and Eloy? 

Why is it they should be on the same timeline?

It’s only because Hahn was such an expert contract negotiator that we were in a position to rebuild in the first place, lol...

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After losing out on Machado, there isn't any reason to go after other FA's, at least this year.  We are going to have 2 more top 5 picks including this year and still have a lot of talent to evaluate in the farm system.  It is literally pointless for them to go after the Marwins , Keuchels, Adam Jones' that were out there.  Let them suck and get young guys more ABs and innings.

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20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

How many years would the rebuild take if these clowns started at the same place Theo did? No talent to get them Moncada and Kopech and Basabe and Lopez and Giolito and Cease and Eloy? 

Why is it they should be on the same timeline?

Precisely why I can't muster any excitement for this team under its current owner/FO.  All of the potential "star" assets the Sox currently have were acquired trading MULTIPLE HoF/insane contract players that are nearly impossible to have happen again like it did

Best case over the next 10 years:  Sox make the playoffs 2-3 times and maybe catch lightning in a bottle once for a real run.

So invested in this shit franchise for so long and now I couldn't give less of a shit.  FU Jerry

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