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What Kind of Rebuild is This?

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20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

How many years would the rebuild take if these clowns started at the same place Theo did? No talent to get them Moncada and Kopech and Basabe and Lopez and Giolito and Cease and Eloy? 

Why is it they should be on the same timeline?

Precisely why I can't muster any excitement for this team under its current owner/FO.  All of the potential "star" assets the Sox currently have were acquired trading MULTIPLE HoF/insane contract players that are nearly impossible to have happen again like it did

Best case over the next 10 years:  Sox make the playoffs 2-3 times and maybe catch lightning in a bottle once for a real run.

So invested in this shit franchise for so long and now I couldn't give less of a shit.  FU Jerry

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35 minutes ago, jenksycat said:

Precisely why I can't muster any excitement for this team under its current owner/FO.  All of the potential "star" assets the Sox currently have were acquired trading MULTIPLE HoF/insane contract players that are nearly impossible to have happen again like it did

Best case over the next 10 years:  Sox make the playoffs 2-3 times and maybe catch lightning in a bottle once for a real run.

So invested in this shit franchise for so long and now I couldn't give less of a shit.  FU Jerry

Pretty sure Eaton and Q aren't Cooperstown bound, but the point still stands...not to mention Frazier/Robertson/Kahnle.

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1 hour ago, jenksycat said:

Precisely why I can't muster any excitement for this team under its current owner/FO.  All of the potential "star" assets the Sox currently have were acquired trading MULTIPLE HoF/insane contract players that are nearly impossible to have happen again like it did

Best case over the next 10 years:  Sox make the playoffs 2-3 times and maybe catch lightning in a bottle once for a real run.

So invested in this shit franchise for so long and now I couldn't give less of a shit.  FU Jerry

That's totally unrealistic given that this team only makes the playoffs only about once a decade and has done a real run only once since the end of the 1977 season.

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8 hours ago, Tony said:

Yeah, but Bryce has was more sex appeal than Pujols or Cabrera. Did you see him ESPN The Body in 2015? Man alive! 😍

810_ordqs7.jpg

Careful man, you'll give the dude impure thoughts. 

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14 hours ago, Insp said:

That's totally unrealistic given that this team only makes the playoffs only about once a decade and has done a real run only once since the end of the 1977 season.

Well they had a nice run overall from 1981-1985 and from 1990-1996.

81-85, four winning seasons, lots of excitement and a division title.

90-96, six winning seasons, a division title, opening of a new ballpark and the rise of some very good young players.

That's not exactly chopped liver.

 

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21 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Well they had a nice run overall from 1981-1985 and from 1990-1996.

81-85, four winning seasons, lots of excitement and a division title.

90-96, six winning seasons, a division title, opening of a new ballpark and the rise of some very good young players.

That's not exactly chopped liver.

 

2006 would have been a wild card most years too just caught a super hot division.

If they don't make at least the wild card 2-3 times over the next decade in this shit division they should just be relegated to a minor league team.

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On 3/10/2019 at 8:39 PM, Insp said:

Here's the deal:  Now that the Sox can't get Machado, they need to use that money to get other quality free agents or else they risk losing much of their fan base.  However, they don't seem interested in doing anything to improve the team free agent wise.

 

The kicker is that Hahn, JR, and KW all give the impression that they are perfectly satisfied with the team as it is right now and don't see the need to do anything constructive.

It's a rebuild of a smaller-market team.

Clearly, they offered a LOT of money to Machado, but it wasn't enough. They then claimed a large reason they couldn't offer more was because they need to be able to resign their younger players several years (at least 5, if not longer) year from now. Obviously, that's not exactly operating as a large market club if they are pretending that they are going to be handicapped in 2025 or 2026. 

If Carlos Roden is able to stay healthy and pitch at a high level, I'm very curious what they are going to do with him. He's a Boras agent, with 3 more years (I think) under control. When (and IF) the time comes, will the White Sox pay him or trade him?

Edited by spiderman

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5 minutes ago, spiderman said:

It's a rebuild of a smaller-market team.

Clearly, they offered a LOT of money to Machado, but it wasn't enough. They then claimed a large reason they couldn't offer more was because they need to be able to resign their younger players several years (at least 5, if not longer) year from now. Obviously, that's not exactly operating as a large market club if they are pretending that they are going to be handicapped in 2025 or 2026. 

If Carlos Roden is able to stay healthy and pitch at a high level, I'm very curious what they are going to do with him. He's a Boras agent, with 3 more years (I think) under control. When (and IF) the time comes, will the White Sox pay him or trade him?

Here's hoping Rodon and to a lesser extent Nate Jones, stay healthy. They can flip them in July.  They are running out of legitimate trade pieces.

With only 3 more years of control for Rodon,  the time is now to trade him.

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1 hour ago, spiderman said:

It's a rebuild of a smaller-market team.

Clearly, they offered a LOT of money to Machado, but it wasn't enough. They then claimed a large reason they couldn't offer more was because they need to be able to resign their younger players several years (at least 5, if not longer) year from now. Obviously, that's not exactly operating as a large market club if they are pretending that they are going to be handicapped in 2025 or 2026. 

If Carlos Roden is able to stay healthy and pitch at a high level, I'm very curious what they are going to do with him. He's a Boras agent, with 3 more years (I think) under control. When (and IF) the time comes, will the White Sox pay him or trade him?

The only other rebuild news is that the team that used to have the fewest injuries now has every other prospect with chronic injuries. 

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I'm as pissed about this debacle of an offseason as anybody.  But I sense that the board's anger about missing out on free agents is morphing into increased pessimism about prospects who have nothing to do with that process.  I have no idea what the future holds for our prospects, but think we should try hard not to change our view of them because Jerry wouldn't up his offer to Manny Machado from 250 to 300.

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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:11 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

The Cubs also pretty much hit on all their top prospect more or less.  That is not a realistic expectation for us.

Did they?  That's a serious question.  I mean, they won the WS, so who am I to argue with the results, but when you break it down on a player by player basis it seems a little more reasonable.  They clearly "hit" on Bryant, who is a superstar.  But are the likes of Almora, Schwarber, Happ, or even Russell "hits"?  If they are, I feel better about our chances.  I don't see a lot of Kris Bryants among our prospects.  But Almoras/Schwarbers?  1.5ish WAR players?  I can at least imagine those if I squint my eyes.

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3 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Did they?  That's a serious question.  I mean, they won the WS, so who am I to argue with the results, but when you break it down on a player by player basis it seems a little more reasonable.  They clearly "hit" on Bryant, who is a superstar.  But are the likes of Almora, Schwarber, Happ, or even Russell "hits"?  If they are, I feel better about our chances.  I don't see a lot of Kris Bryants among our prospects.  But Almoras/Schwarbers?  1.5ish WAR players?  I can at least imagine those if I squint my eyes.

Soler and CJ Edwards in their 2015 top 5 haven't done much.

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3 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I take it from the pithiness of your response that you take the import of your link to be self-evident.  But I'm sorry, I'm not getting it.

Sorry, the bloody thing ate the text that I was trying to put in the link 3 different times before I was able to get it to edit in text. 

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Sorry, the bloody thing at the text that I was trying to put in the link 3 different times before I was able to get it to edit in text. 

Got it -- yes, that's true.  Interesting that the biggest names after their top 5 are guys they traded away.  (Though to be fair, Contreras isn't on this list and he's been pretty good).

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This is a rebuild that is still in talent acquisition mode. All players on the roster over the age of 28 should be traded come July.

The reality looks like at least another two more years of tanking. This team needs to continue to stockpile high draft picks and hit the amateur market hard.

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Just now, OneDog847 said:

This is a rebuild that is still in talent acquisition mode. All players on the roster over the age of 28 should be traded come July.

The reality looks like at least another two more years of tanking. This team needs to continue to stockpile high draft picks and hit the amateur market hard.

I don't disagree, but they haven't acquired a single valuable asset over the last two offseasons.  Not getting anything for Abreu or Avi two offseasons ago still stings.

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5 minutes ago, fathom said:

I don't disagree, but they haven't acquired a single valuable asset over the last two offseasons.  Not getting anything for Abreu or Avi two offseasons ago still stings.

Realistically, what could we have gotten in return...it was his only healthy/productive season, so it surely looked like an outlier or anomaly to other analytics driven teams, particularly infield hits/BABIP.

JDM took months to sign to sign at well under his fWAR value.

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12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Realistically, what could we have gotten in return...it was his only healthy/productive season, so it surely looked like an outlier or anomaly to other analytics driven teams, particularly infield hits/BABIP.

JDM took months to sign to sign at well under his fWAR value.

Anything would be better than letting him go and getting literally nothing in return.  I still have no idea why they let him go this offseason if they weren't going to legitimately go after Bryce.

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16 minutes ago, fathom said:

Anything would be better than letting him go and getting literally nothing in return.  I still have no idea why they let him go this offseason if they weren't going to legitimately go after Bryce.

Yeah, even if he repeated his 2017 season, maybe more homers and lower BA..."decent" defensively compensated for with a slew of OF assists like Eaton compiled in RF, then would they have really broken the bank and given him a deal like Aaron Hicks (which would have still been the biggest deal in WS history, for what amounts to a "complementary" player) just got from the Yankees?

Garcia would have been younger, and fit the "core profile" for the 2020-2023 "playoff" drive.

Otherwise, we're stuck waiting on the remaining four corner outfield guys (and Basabe already has been set back) or signing Puig/Castellanos/Ozuna for roughly the same we were going to pay our own homegrown (well, via DET) prospect in Avi.

I guess, from a marketing standpoint, Puig could sell another 250-500 season tickets if he puts up 35-45 homers this season at GAB. 

 

 

 

Edited by caulfield12

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39 minutes ago, fathom said:

Anything would be better than letting him go and getting literally nothing in return.  I still have no idea why they let him go this offseason if they weren't going to legitimately go after Bryce.

It makes absolutely no sense except the ol' tanking thing.

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On 3/12/2019 at 10:34 AM, Lip Man 1 said:

Well they had a nice run overall from 1981-1985 and from 1990-1996.

81-85, four winning seasons, lots of excitement and a division title.

90-96, six winning seasons, a division title, opening of a new ballpark and the rise of some very good young players.

That's not exactly chopped liver.

 

A nice run is one that excites the fan base.  During the past 40-some years, there have been only 2 such runs 1977 & 2005.  Making the playoffs means nothing now that it has become ridiculously easy to make the postseason as opposed to before 1969 when there was no such thing as divisions and it was all or nothing.

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1 hour ago, Insp said:

A nice run is one that excites the fan base.  During the past 40-some years, there have been only 2 such runs 1977 & 2005.  Making the playoffs means nothing now that it has become ridiculously easy to make the postseason as opposed to before 1969 when there was no such thing as divisions and it was all or nothing.

I can't speak for everyone but I was damn excited during the two time periods I listed. 1977 and 2005 were one year wonders. To do something sustained is the mark of excellence and the two runs I mentioned while not Yankee or brave like were still worth mentioning. As I said they aren't chopped liver to be dismissed out of hand or tossed in the garbage.

That's plain nuts.

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