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JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Have we hit bottom?

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45 minutes ago, Cashman said:

The Sox hit rock bottom, when they failed to land a major FA this offseason. We have become the Pirates. 

It would be p nice to be the pirates

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8 hours ago, sox71 said:

I have never been more down on the Sox in my life.  Have not given up hope and will love this team.   However, with the lack of a marquee free agent and all the pitching prospects going down or flaming out (except for Cease), I am starting to lose hope. 

I could not  have said it better myself. After the Machado failure I have never been this disinterested and disgusted with  the Sox in a long time. I will watch (but not with he same vigor) and hopefully Eloy brings some excitement along with Moncada but I am still so down on them I cant describe it. I cant seem to shake the Machado debacle. And i will NEVER EVER read another thread or story on " what free agents should we chase" in 2020. Does it really matter because we will never have a chance with a 26 year old superstar like we just had. Maybe i'm in the minority and hopefully i shake out of it with some good play by the young guys but at this point i'm not sure. And a few of my friends feel the exact way i do so maybe its just not me. To tell you the truth if i hear Hahn's voice talking about always on the lookout for "premium young talent " i might puke. Oh well just venting but it still doesn't make it better.  

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I think last year was rock bottom. Especially after the Kopech injury.

This year we have an improved BP.

I have faith we will see improvements from Moncada, Lopez, Gio (not that it would take much to show improvement form '18) and TA.

Jimenez will join the lineup.

 

We just have to see growth from the above players in the MLB, see growth form our top prospects in the minors, and avoid injury to our key players of the future.

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No I think there could be worse times ahead. As this "rebuild" plays out it has the potential to get even uglier. It may be a total an epic failure but even if its not there are going to be some failed prospects along the way that will leave a lot of us doubting. There will not be much patience from the fans that are still left. 

Have a nice Tuesday. 

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The main question is if at the end of the season we feel comfortable that we have several core pieces going forward. Potential candidates for that status:

  • Eloy
  • Yoan
  • Tim Anderson
  • Reynaldo Lopez
  • Lucas Giolito
  • Dylan Cease
  • Michael Kopech

There are of course other players who may end up core pieces, but they are too far away for us to know by the end of the year. Kopech is sort of in that situation, but we have good reason to think he'll be a core piece in spite of his injury. To be honest, solid seasons from Eloy, Yoan, and one starting pitcher will be enough to keep me hopeful. I don't rule out a big step forward for Tim but I think that's mostly wishful thinking and he'll always be kind of a peripheral guy who is nice to have but isn't pushing you over the top. I also think Rodon is still important but that's now more of a near-term concern.

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I think this year we move up a step from rock bottom.  Lopez, Rodon , Moncada and TA should hopefully take a step up and Eloy should make a splash.  I see some posters say Eloy in a few weeks but my gut says Eloy's splash will be delayed till he starts hitting the cover off at AAA.  Now it may take till after All Star break but if 2 or more of the 5 are going the wrong way in late summer and are healthy, then the bottom may be coming up again. 

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7 minutes ago, Jake said:

The main question is if at the end of the season we feel comfortable that we have several core pieces going forward. Potential candidates for that status:

  • Eloy
  • Yoan
  • Tim Anderson
  • Reynaldo Lopez
  • Lucas Giolito
  • Dylan Cease
  • Michael Kopech

There are of course other players who may end up core pieces, but they are too far away for us to know by the end of the year. Kopech is sort of in that situation, but we have good reason to think he'll be a core piece in spite of his injury. To be honest, solid seasons from Eloy, Yoan, and one starting pitcher will be enough to keep me hopeful. I don't rule out a big step forward for Tim but I think that's mostly wishful thinking and he'll always be kind of a peripheral guy who is nice to have but isn't pushing you over the top. I also think Rodon is still important but that's now more of a near-term concern.

SS is usually an important position on successful teams.  TA needs to be at least steady.  If he  goes south and there is nothing in the pipeline, I would be concerned. 

I think this is a year for Kopech to just get healthy and we won't get too much of a read on when he will become a major factor. 

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Rock bottom would be Moncada, Lopez, Cease, and Eloy going down with major injuries. Could always get a whole lot worse. Sox aren't at that point.

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We still don’t have a consensus long-term solution at catcher...that, fortifying the starting rotation with perfect veteran presence, and keeping LUIS Robert off the disabled list are/should be the biggest concerns. 

Rodon, Cease, Giolito, Kopech, Dunning, Hansen, Hamilton, Nate Jones, Fry (multiple TJ’s) and Herrera (general wear and tear from overuse in KC, diminished velocity) all have various levels of flashing warning signs about potential health issues now or down the road.  That’s not unlike the 1998-2001 group of highly-touted pitching prospects.

The odds are extremely high (at least for the moment) of being frustrated once again over losing another potential franchise cornerstone or superstar in Adley Rutschman this June.

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6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Minus the much nicer and newer stadium and the cool downtown location....and the picturesque Clemente Bridge/Statue.

Definitely some similarities, dumping fan favorites McCutcheon, Cole, Mercer, Harrison, etc.

I wish the White Sox had a park as nice as PNC  and it was located in the South Loop.

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29 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We still don’t have a consensus long-term solution at catcher...that, fortifying the starting rotation with perfect veteran presence, and keeping LUIS Robert off the disabled list are/should be the biggest concerns. 

We don't have a consensus solution at any position except 1B and that's for this year only with Abreu...is there another player on this roster who you can comfortably say is above average?
That's not to say several won't become that, but right now, they aren't.

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10 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

We don't have a consensus solution at any position except 1B and that's for this year only with Abreu...is there another player on this roster who you can comfortably say is above average?
That's not to say several won't become that, but right now, they aren't.

Moncada, Anderson, Madrigal, Jimenez and Robert have to be it....leaving RF, C, DH and 1B.

There’s no way around that.  As it stands, you can add Collins as well, unless anyone believes we’re going to outspend 10+ teams for the services of a 31 year old Grandal.  And Grandal will just go year to year like a Moustakas on contending teams unless he gets a minimum 3 or 4 year guaranteed offer...so the risk is high his best remaining season on the deal would be wasted in 2020.  

Otherwise, trade for Austin Hedges and don’t get shafted again.   They would ask for Rodon, undoubtedly.   The potential deal to be made would be Rodon, Leury/Yolmer (pick one) and Nate Jones for Hedges and W.Myers/Jankowski/Renfroe/Cordero/Reyes (pick one).  Of course, that would also virtually force us to go into the FA market for a legit TOR starter against the big boys.

Edited by caulfield12

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19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Moncada, Anderson, Madrigal, Jimenez and Robert have to be it....leaving RF, C, DH and 1B.

There’s no way around that.  As it stands, you can add Collins as well, unless anyone believes we’re going to outspend 10+ teams for the services of a 31 year old Grandal.  And Grandal will just go year to year like a Moustakas on contending teams unless he gets a minimum 3 or 4 year guaranteed offer...so the risk is high his best remaining season on the deal would be wasted in 2020.  

Otherwise, trade for Austin Hedges and don’t get shafted again.   They would ask for Rodon, undoubtedly.   The potential deal to be made would be Rodon, Leury/Yolmer (pick one) and Nate Jones for Hedges and W.Myers/Jankowski/Renfroe/Cordero/Reyes (pick one).  Of course, that would also virtually force us to go into the FA market for a legit TOR starter against the big boys.

18 man!  That was 18! Nice work

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33 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Moncada, Anderson, Madrigal, Jimenez and Robert have to be it....leaving RF, C, DH and 1B.

There’s no way around that.  As it stands, you can add Collins as well, unless anyone believes we’re going to outspend 10+ teams for the services of a 31 year old Grandal.  And Grandal will just go year to year like a Moustakas on contending teams unless he gets a minimum 3 or 4 year guaranteed offer...so the risk is high his best remaining season on the deal would be wasted in 2020.  

Otherwise, trade for Austin Hedges and don’t get shafted again.   They would ask for Rodon, undoubtedly.   The potential deal to be made would be Rodon, Leury/Yolmer (pick one) and Nate Jones for Hedges and W.Myers/Jankowski/Renfroe/Cordero/Reyes (pick one).  Of course, that would also virtually force us to go into the FA market for a legit TOR starter against the big boys.

What a gross trade idea and just an irrationally negative post in general.

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12 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

It’s always darkest before dawn 🙂

There's got to be a morning after
If we can hold on through the night
We have a chance to find the sunshine
Let's keep on looking for the light

Oh, can't you see the morning after?
It's waiting right outside the storm
Why don't we cross the bridge together
And find a place that's safe and warm?

It's not too late, we should be giving
Only with love can we climb
It's not too late, not while we're living
Let's put our hands out in time

There's got to be a morning after
We're moving closer to the shore
I know we'll be there by tomorrow
And we'll escape the darkness
We won't be searching any more.

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Rock bottom for me was when I heard we lost out on signing Machado. At that point I knew the front office and ownership group had failed us and my thought was "what the Hell"!

Edited by Saufley

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What a gross trade idea and just an irrationally negative post in general.

Please present your options for catcher in 2020.

Keep in mind, Grandal's not going to sign a one year deal with the Sox unless we outbid every contender by 10-15%.  Or he'll likely be looking for at least a 2 and more likely a 3 year deal at age 31.

Also, would love to hear who you REALISTICALLY believe we could get back in return for Carlos Rodon...let's say he's at a 3.50 ERA in early July, good peripherals, .500ish W/L record, lower walk rate than previous years.

Do we not need a RF next year?  Do we not need a catcher?  Since everyone will pooh-pooh the idea of Puig on principle, you're left with Castellanos (he of a career fWAR under 10) and Marcell Ozuna, who profiles remarkably like Puig in terms of their "average" numbers over the course of their young careers.

We know none of our minor league outfielders remaining after Jimenez/Robert will be ready until Opening Day, 2021.

Then you want to have a contending team built around a rookie or multiple rookies having to perform?  Well, that sounds QUITE familiar, doesn't it?

Edited by caulfield12

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30 minutes ago, Saufley said:

Rock bottom for me was when I heard we lost out on signing Machado. At that point I knew the front office and ownership group had failed and my thought was "what the Hell"!

I think most of our thoughts were more like "what the f*#k????"

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Rock bottom is still coming at some point this season. I disagree with those who think we'll win more games this year than we did last year. The team is noticeably weaker unless Eloy's excellence matters THAT much to this year's W/L record. Let's hope our prospects stay healthy. However I am convinced rock bottom is not here yet. Let's hope our lineup isn't SO bad and our starters SO bad that we go 5-25 in April or something. That would be rock bottom.

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4 hours ago, shipps said:

No I think there could be worse times ahead. As this "rebuild" plays out it has the potential to get even uglier. It may be a total an epic failure but even if its not there are going to be some failed prospects along the way that will leave a lot of us doubting. There will not be much patience from the fans that are still left. 

Have a nice Tuesday. 

If none of the prospects acquired in the Eaton, Sale and Q trades shows out at the MLB level this year then it's not a "rebuild" it's just an incredibly awful club with no future, no present, and very little past.

By not committing any money to Manny the club has doubled down on their existing management, major and minor league talent, and overall organizational position within MLB.  This is a bottom tier franchise (bottom 5 easily at the moment) with an uncertain future. 

It's hard for us fans to keep caring and supporting them given that no, this is not "rock bottom" -- rock bottom would be starting over in 2022 after the failure of the rebuild.  There is not enough evidence lately to say that things will get better.  They can easily get worse.

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11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There's got to be a morning after
If we can hold on through the night
We have a chance to find the sunshine
Let's keep on looking for the light

Oh, can't you see the morning after?
It's waiting right outside the storm
Why don't we cross the bridge together
And find a place that's safe and warm?

It's not too late, we should be giving
Only with love can we climb
It's not too late, not while we're living
Let's put our hands out in time

There's got to be a morning after
We're moving closer to the shore
I know we'll be there by tomorrow
And we'll escape the darkness
We won't be searching any more.

please, please, please let me get what I want(pennant before death).

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