Bob Sacamano Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Absolutely. How often are truly elite players not pursued by a single big market team? The big market teams were near or over the luxury tax line. Yankees also made an offer on him with a high AAV but short-term. Remember, they are paying Stanton and will have to pay their other home-grown stars soon (judge). Also, I expect them to sign Cole next off-season since Tanaka and CC will be free agents. They're loaded on hitting compared to pitching Edited March 26, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Absolutely. How often are truly elite players not pursued by a single big market team? Your analysis is beyond flawed. Sometimes players take the most money offered. If the Gary Railcats offered 300 million dollar contracts my guess is that their lineup would be a lot better than it is today regardless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Absolutely. How often are truly elite players not pursued by a single big market team? This is a pretty brutal argument pal. So elite players only sign with big teams? That doesn't make much sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I'm not surprised by this thread devolving into another argument, but I am surprised that the argument is over whether or not Machado is an elite player. I'm further surprised by one of the determining factors or being elite is where he signed to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: This is a pretty brutal argument pal. So elite players only sign with big teams? That doesn't make much sense. You could have just given some examples. Cano is one. It could just be a discussion and not an opportunity to take pot shots, but you know, Facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: You could have just given some examples. Cano is one. It could just be a discussion and not an opportunity to take pot shots, but you know, Facebook. Players sign where they get the most money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: You could have just given some examples. Cano is one. It could just be a discussion and not an opportunity to take pot shots, but you know, Facebook. This has been discussed at length. The reason Machado and Harper ended up where they ended up is because the traditional powers were tapped out. It’s not because they weren’t two of the most elite free agents this game has seen in decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Arod signed with the texas rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: Arod signed with the texas rangers. Are the Rangers a small market team? Weren't they throwing around a ton of money at that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Greinke is another good example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: Are the Rangers a small market team? Weren't they throwing around a ton of money at that time? If your definition of being a small market is whether or not they throw around big money, san diego is now no longer small market team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Are the Rangers a small market team? Weren't they throwing around a ton of money at that time? I mean if that's your argument how is handing out the 4th largest MLB contract in history not throwing around big money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Regardless, I'll go back to where the conversation started. 3 years from now, I'd rather have an infield of Moncada, Anderson and Madrigal with payroll flexibility than Machado, Anderson and Moncada without any payroll flexibility. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, bmags said: If your definition of being a small market is whether or not they throw around big money, san diego is now no longer small market team. What if Machado is all the payroll flexibility they'll have moving forward? Obviously I'm not articulating this well. Let's say the Padres have a finite budget (obviously the Sox do), then is it wise to throw it all in the Machado basket? I don't think Machado is the player you want to go all in on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, Tony said: Translation: My argument has made no sense from the beginning, people are finally responding and now I really look bad.....So regardless, I'll go back to where to the conversation started. I don't care how I look. I dont know any of you and I'm not a very active poster. I went back to the beginning because, as I said, I'm not articulating it well. If you want to be dick about it, cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said: Agreed. Yet he signed a $300M+ contract. I think comprehension has failed you. You said Machado isn’t elite or even great and pointed out Stanton as an example of someone who isn’t even consider “great” who signed for $300M, to which I responded with good enough backing that Stanton is at least great, and Manny is even better. So your original statement is nonsense. Regardless, using whether a player was pursued by big market teams as a barometer for a player’s greatness is a narrow-minded and elitist argument. There are plenty of great ways to measure a player’s value, and what you said isn’t one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Well we at least finally agree on something. If you don't like Machado, that's totally fine. But you've moved the goalposts of your "argument" multiple times, and have been called out by multiple people for it. First it was that you didn't want to spend the money on Machado. Then it was because he "isn't good defensively". That's just an outright fallacy, it's wrong. Then it transitioned to "Well elite players never go to small market teams so Machado isn't elite" and when multiple names were brought up......you response was "Regardless of all the facts that were just previously brought up, I want to go back to my original point...I want payroll flexibility." No one asked to make this argument, you brought this up yourself and decided to go down this road. If you don't want feedback, don't post. My argument is that Machado isn't a franchise player. I never said I didn't like Machado. Jesus christ. Edited March 26, 2019 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: I think comprehension has failed you. You said Machado isn’t elite or even great and pointed out Stanton as an example of someone who isn’t even consider “great” who signed for $300M, to which I responded with good enough backing that Stanton is at least great, and Manny is even better. So your original statement is nonsense. Regardless, using whether a player was pursued by big market teams as a barometer for a player’s greatness is a narrow-minded and elitist argument. There are plenty of great ways to measure a player’s value, and what you said isn’t one of them. Stanton is a good power hitter that had a great year. Hes not a great player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, Tony said: Translation: My argument has made no sense from the beginning, people are finally responding and now I really look bad.....So regardless, I'll go back to where to the conversation started. QFT. FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Mu argument is that Machado isn't a franchise player. I never said I didn't like Machado. Jesus christ. A 5 to 6 win player is a franchise player, whether you think so or not. Not everyone is a 10 win player like Trout. Get over yourself and your awful and misguided take on Machado. Edited March 26, 2019 by Harper2Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Stanton is a good power hitter that had a great year. Hes not a great player. If Stanton is only a good power hitter then who are the great power hitters? He's also had more than one great year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said: If Stanton is only a good power hitter then who are the great power hitters? He's also had more than one great year. You're right, hes had 2 great years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: My argument is that Machado isn't a franchise player. I never said I didn't like Machado. Jesus christ. You said Machado isn’t elite or even great, verbatim. By all measure Machado and Stanton are at least great players. Manny is on the border line of great and elite. This isn’t basketball where only 15-20 players are considered great and 3-4 are elite. If you just consider the top 5% of the active MLB roster as great players, that’s roughly 40 players, and 1% as elite, that’s roughly 8-10 players. I don’t think you could name 40 players better than Manny or Stanton. Manny is also a lot closer to the conversation of elite than the level below. Edited March 26, 2019 by thxfrthmmrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 “I’m getting hungry trolling people on the Internet again...” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: You said Machado isn’t elite or even great, verbatim. By all measure Machado and Stanton are at least great players. Manny is on the border line of great and elite. This isn’t basketball where only 15-20 players are considered great and 3-4 are elite. If you just consider the top 5% of the active MLB roster as great players, that’s roughly 40 players, and 1% as elite, that’s roughly 8-10 players. I don’t think you could name 40 players better than Manny or Stanton. Manny is also a lot closer to the conversation of elite than the level below. Fair enough. I'd consider great more in the context of history and elite current. Machado comps with Josh Donaldson and I struggle to call him great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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