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Gomez: Sox, Eloy nearing $100 million extension

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5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Fine, go ahead and spend $100 million and another $9 million for 1.1 fWAR Nova and $9 million for 0.7 Alonso while giving away 2.1 fWAR Narvaez with four remaining years of control and 27 year old Avi Garcia.

WTF...like I have no ide what this post even means.  What does spending $100M on Eloy have to do with any of the names you just mentioned?  How does this support your claim it’s idiotic to spend $100M on a guy who needs to “hit like Ramirez” to be valuable?  Also, please stop pretending Narvaez is a 2 win player just because BaltaBot keeps saying it in his endless request to rip the Colome trade.

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not defending Hahn’s offseason (it really did suck), but Alonso & Nova weren’t free agents so it’s wrong to say we paid a “we suck” tax for those guys.  

And we all know why Hahn added Jay & Alonso, so let’s not pretend those moves were anything but lame attempts to make the White Sox more attractive to Machado.

I do agree Hahn completely mid-read the SP market with Nova as Gonzalez would be a significantly better option at a similar or lower price right now.

But maybe not . Will Gio take just 1 year? ANd it's also a very long time to wait to situate your starting staff.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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48 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Reports during negotiations said Machado did not want to go out west. Of course 50 extra million can convince people a lot of things. If money was equal I have 0 doubt hed be here.

100% this is a fact.

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Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's just the whiny narrative going around right now for guys we paid less than $10M a yr. on for basically 1 year contracts. Oh no heaven forbid the Sox paid market rate to fill roster spots that needed filling regardless. Everyone expected the Sox to spend $300M but all of a sudden they were supposed to guess the entire market accurately and spend a lot less to surround Machado with crap or injured pitchers making up 3/5 of our starting staff.

If you don't what I mean by that last sentence it's everyone telling me Bucholz and Miley and all these other pitchers who pitched less than 100 innings last year could been signed for cheaper than Nova to eat innings. Then throw Rodon into that mix and there's 3/5 of the rotation being injured last  year. It boggles my mind that fans here think those guys are innings eaters who had injuries in 2018. You need a history of eating innings  . Holy shit how self explanatory does the term innings eater have to be ?

All of a sudden everyone's an expert on how to pend Jerry's money and it's always after the fact.

I would honestly rather run Fulmer and Hansen out there on a wing and a prayer and hope one of them clicks.   Even Covey and Banuelos, and allocate that extra money to Machado.  

Better yet, G. Gonzalez for $5-6 million, even $7.5 for Gio to mentor Rodon as a fellow lefty.

Why did we need two quasi closers in Herrera and Colome when we already had Jones and Fry...not to mention our minor league relief depth was supposedly our single “market niche” or advantage over other teams going into this offseason.

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Jon Jay is a nice fit on this team regardless of the reasons he was signed for and I will keep reiterating that until its accepted as fact.

Edited by Buehrle>Wood

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16 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Sox don't spend on Machado - "fuck you, you cheap bastards."

 

Sox spend money on Eloy - "fuck you, you idiots." 

#soxfans

Not the same situation, not even close. But you know that.

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5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's just the whiny narrative going around right now for guys we paid less than $10M a yr. on for basically 1 year contracts. Oh no heaven forbid the Sox paid market rate to fill roster spots that needed filling regardless. Everyone expected the Sox to spend $300M but all of a sudden they were supposed to guess the entire market accurately and spend a lot less to surround Machado with crap or injured pitchers making up 3/5 of our starting staff.

If you don't what I mean by that last sentence it's everyone telling me Bucholz and Miley and all these other pitchers who pitched less than 100 innings last year could been signed for cheaper than Nova to eat innings. Then throw Rodon into that mix and there's 3/5 of the rotation being injured last  year. It boggles my mind that fans here think those guys are innings eaters who had injuries in 2018. You need a history of eating innings  . Holy shit how self explanatory does the term innings eater have to be ?

All of a sudden everyone's an expert on how to pend Jerry's money and it's always after the fact.

The "Whiny narrative" from the fans has absolutely nothing to do with the whiny executive VP of baseball operations whining repeatedly about payroll flexibility, of course. It's only the whiny fans who count. 

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7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why not just give another $75-85 million to Moncada so we can control him through 2024 instead of 2023...?  Would anyone be elated NOW if we had given a similar deal to Moncada in 2017?

Or Giolito?  Or Kopech?

I think or at least hope....certainly not.

Are these serious questions?  Come on dude, it takes two sides to do a deal.  I’d love to extend Moncada, but he already has $32M in the bank.  Why in the fuck would we extend a broken ass Giolito?  And pitchers generally speaking are far more volatile than top 5 positional prospects, so I don’t think you’d ever offer one a pre-majors extension like this, even for a guy who is as talented as Kopech.  I really think you’re just arguing to argue at this point.

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

WTF...like I have no ide what this post even means.  What does spending $100M on Eloy have to do with any of the names you just mentioned?  How does this support your claim it’s idiotic to spend $100M on a guy who needs to “hit like Ramirez” to be valuable?  Also, please stop pretending Narvaez is a 2 win player just because BaltaBot keeps saying it in his endless request to rip the Colome trade.

JFC "stop pretending Narvaez is a 2 win player just because I say it"?  Well at the very least I know you can only ever quote one site for your WAR totals again because you just said that 2 pages showing them don't count and that BP has completely and precisely priced in the value of framing and we 100% know that skill cannot change. 

I'd even agree with you that the post you are replying to was dumb, but hey it's a thread so Balta's got to be insulted for not understanding that framing is a stat sent from the gods. 

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

The "Whiny narrative" from the fans has absolutely nothing to do with the whiny executive VP of baseball operations whining repeatedly about payroll flexibility, of course. It's only the whiny fans who count. 

The entire history of the franchise has been that they're cheap. Crying about it incessantly is just annoying. You knew the outcome already. Why continue to cry? It's just weird imo. 

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12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Check back with us when Eloy puts up a 10 fWAR...or sells more jerseys than any player in the history of professional sports the first day.

Will they even carry Jimenez jerseys after getting burned on Moncada, Rodon and Giolito?

He might need to first hit 30+ homers with a .275 to .280 average before they commit to a mass jersey production run.

This may be your dumbest post yet and proves you’re on some negativity-fueled argument bender right now.  You’re way too smart of a poster to actually believe this nonsense.

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This is interesting seeing as they already sent him down. It almost has to be a structure for an extension that takes place after he gets called up which would make this essentially a 9 year deal. 

If not, Arenado as an example was $26m for his final arb year, which was turned into $35 m per year by his new deal. Even if you take year 6 and add 35m a year for years 7 and 8 to go 26/35/35, that adds up to 96m for those 3 years alone. 

Tim Anderson got $850K, $1MM, $1.4MM, $4MM, $7.25MM, and $9.5MM in his deal, so maybe it looks something like this for an 8 year deal...

19- $1m

20-$1.5m

21-$2m 

22-$5m

23-$10m

24-$20m

25-$30m*

26-$30m*

The last two years as options, the 1st six guaranteed as $6/39, total possible 8/99.

If it doesn't include 19, maybe there is a bonus in it?

 

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19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I would honestly rather run Fulmer and Hansen out there on a wing and a prayer and hope one of them clicks.   Even Covey and Banuelos, and allocate that extra money to Machado.  

Better yet, G. Gonzalez for $5-6 million, even $7.5 for Gio to mentor Rodon as a fellow lefty.

Why did we need two quasi closers in Herrera and Colome when we already had Jones and Fry...not to mention our minor league relief depth was supposedly our single “market niche” or advantage over other teams going into this offseason.

Because it's been the only way we got anything back in trades at the deadline  and maybe one of these times we get something useful back. ALso all moves were made with getting Manny in mind. Maybe you would recall that before he went to San Diego people wanted to actually compete this year. I always said it was nuts with the starting pitching but people around here liked the bullpen . The vets also protect the young arms from getting thrown into high stress innings early in their careers.

Why all of a sudden is the argument now that well we are going to suck so use and abuse the kids or Mr. Reliable Nate Jones ? Assume we got Machado before making statements because that's how the team was being prepared before they lost him.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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17 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

No, it isn’t wrong.  Money is money whether you spend it on the salary of players you acquire via trade or free agency.  It means that Hahn misread the market by trading for those guys instead of spending less money on signing comparable free agents.  Hahn actually did worse because he also gave up resources other than money in those trades.  Colome too.  He traded Narvaez for Colome and his $6-7 million dollars for this year.

I don’t even know what you’re arguing at this point, but Hahn mid-reading the market doesn’t reflect a “we suck” tax it reflects a “our GM sucks” issue.  There is zero evidence to suggest free agents are demanding more from us than other clubs, which is the point I’m making.  I’m not sure how this is even an argument.

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The "Whiny narrative" from the fans has absolutely nothing to do with the whiny executive VP of baseball operations whining repeatedly about payroll flexibility, of course. It's only the whiny fans who count. 

I never said Kenny made sense. I said the opposite in fact. But it is also possible that KW and the whiny fans both make no sense. There are plenty of valid arguments when talking about Machado but not as many when talking about the rest of the off season. That's just pissed off at the world whining.

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22 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Jon Jay is a nice fit on this team regardless of the reasons he was signed for and I will keep reiterating that until its accepted as fact.

How so?  To get them from 70 wins to 71?  He was only a nice fit if it helped them sign Machado, which it obviously did not.  Do you really think the Sox wouldn’t love to undo that signing if they had the hindsight of knowing they wouldn’t sign Machado?  Why waste $4 million and limit at bats to a younger player.  Hell, may as well give Engel more at bats in a non-competitive season.

Jay would be a nice signing for a competitive team as a reserve guy at $2 to $3 million.  The Sox overpayed him just to help acquire Machado and it didn’t work.  There is no reason to waste at bats on him now.

Edited by Harper2Sox

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I don't understand this from a Sox perspective. Save the money, and pay him when he needs to be paid. 

From Eloy's perspective, if this is true, he needs to sign it quickly. 

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9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t even know what you’re arguing at this point, but Hahn mid-reading the market doesn’t reflect a “we suck” tax it reflects a “our GM sucks” issue.  There is zero evidence to suggest free agents are demanding more from us than other clubs, which is the point I’m making.  I’m not sure how this is even an argument.

Our front office sucking is my point, not that free agents demand more money to come to the Sox.  So I guess we are in agreement.

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2 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

How so?  To get them from 70 wins to 71?  He was only a nice fit if it helped them sign Machado, which it obviously did not.  Do you really think the Sox wouldn’t love to undo that signing if they had the hindsight of knowing they wouldn’t sign Machado?  Why waste $4 million and limit at bats to a younger player.  Hell, may as well give Engel more at bats in a non-competitive season.

Jay would be a nice signing for a competitive team as a reserve guy at $2 to $3 million.  The Sox overpayed him just to help acquire Machado and it didn’t work.  There is no reason to waste at bats on him now.

The main player he and Alonso are blocking is Palka...after Jimenez comes up for LF.

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2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don't understand this from a Sox perspective. Save the money, and pay him when he needs to be paid. 

From Eloy's perspective, if this is true, he needs to sign it quickly. 

If you're convinced he's going to be even a good regular and you can buy out a couple of FA years when he's still in his prime by trading him financial security early, you jump at it. 

If you do 5 of these deals and 1 of them flops, it's still a helluva lot better spending than anything else the White Sox have done in years.

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you're convinced he's going to be even a good regular and you can buy out a couple of FA years when he's still in his prime by trading him financial security early, you jump at it. 

If you do 5 of these deals and 1 of them flops, it's still a helluva lot better spending than anything else the White Sox have done in years.

But this is just ONE year, not 2-3.  And why wouldn’t they have been convinced to offer the same deal to Moncada as well?  Simply because the $32 million in the bank made it unpalatable?

Shouldnt they have considered that before acquiring Moncada and Robert, that they would be much less desperate to extend with a life-altering deal of guaranteed extension dollars?

Edited by caulfield12

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7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The main player he and Alonso are blocking is Palka...after Jimenez comes up for LF.

I’d rather see Palka get the at bats than either Jay or Alonso.

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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The main player he and Alonso are blocking is Palka...after Jimenez comes up for LF.

Which is why after not getting Machado ALonso won't reach the required AB's to be vested next year. Now Palka should be blocking him at least for left DH. But still doesn't change the fact the moves were made to lure Machado and get closer to competing. Remember Joc Pederson ? So many wanted him for a shot at competing even if it was just for 2 years and we'd have to probably give up a prospect and put his slow ass in CF ? Now you get to nit pick and use biased rehashed history to say but but they couldv'e spent less? Nonsense.

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42 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's just the whiny narrative going around right now for guys we paid less than $10M a yr. on for basically 1 year contracts. Oh no heaven forbid the Sox paid market rate to fill roster spots that needed filling regardless. Everyone expected the Sox to spend $300M but all of a sudden they were supposed to guess the entire market accurately and spend a lot less to surround Machado with crap or injured pitchers making up 3/5 of our starting staff.

If you don't what I mean by that last sentence it's everyone telling me Bucholz and Miley and all these other pitchers who pitched less than 100 innings last year could been signed for cheaper than Nova to eat innings. Then throw Rodon into that mix and there's 3/5 of the rotation being injured last  year. It boggles my mind that fans here think those guys are innings eaters who had injuries in 2018. You need a history of eating innings  . Holy shit how self explanatory does the term innings eater have to be ?

All of a sudden everyone's an expert on how to pend Jerry's money and it's always after the fact.

When people have an agenda they will twist anything to further it.

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