caulfield12 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 We all know the fate of other Sox sites that enforced “group think positivism” about any and every move the team made. It’s going to take Eloy raking to refocus us, and Robert/Cease/Madrigal asserting themselves as 3 of the Top 25 prospects in the game and then the energy and exciting surrounding the June draft and finally, getting some more useful pieces back for Abreu, Alonso, Nova or Santana, N.Jones, potentially Herrera or Colome and maybe Leury or a catcher depending on their seasons as well as the progress of Collins/Zavala at Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Missing out on Machado and Harper is not that issue. The issue is that two players that fit perfectly into the rebuild were passed over because the organization is cheap and the front office response to fans appears to us that they feel we are morons. A player of their talent is not going to be an option for the White Sox in free agency in this rebuild again. It was an epic failure as has been he management of the team under Rick Hahn. That is the issue. Neither guy was overpaid and the White Sox were never in on either. The smoke and bullshit all winter was just that...bullshit. They were never going to get either and they should have had whichever they wanted by forcing the issue. Had they said from day one that they felt the skillset of each player did not warrant the contract fine but the Tanaka signing dog and pony show to in the end not even be close is bad and then for them to talk about their fundamental changes in organization stylings is insulting to any fan paying attention. Nothing changed. They still cannot draft or develop players and they are not willing to sign big name free agents. Kenny Williams was in the front office when the Garland trade happened. The white flag was a rebuild but Rick Hahn wants us fans to believe he is doing something novel. The only thing he is doing is failing miserably at his job. He actually makes KW look good and I hate KW. That is where my thoughts are in regard to the Chicago White Sox. I really hope that changes but it is only getting worse as the season draws near. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: We all know the fate of other Sox sites that enforced “group think positivism” about any and every move the team made. It’s going to take Eloy raking to refocus us, and Robert/Cease/Madrigal asserting themselves as 3 of the Top 25 prospects in the game and then the energy and exciting surrounding the June draft and finally, getting some more useful pieces back for Abreu, Alonso, Nova or Santana, N.Jones, potentially Herrera or Colome and maybe Leury or a catcher depending on their seasons as well as the progress of Collins/Zavala at Charlotte. None of those guys are getting useful pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Harry Chappas said: None of those guys are getting useful pieces. Let’s just wait and see. With Michael Fulmer out now and Keller starting for KC in the opener, there’s 57 divisional games to pad offensive numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: And the rest of the threads? You have a fair point with other threads, but people have a right to be pissed in this thread after listening to Rick Hahn’s interview. It totally reconfirmed all our worst fears about this front office and ownership group and that’s something worth discussing IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: Which is exactly why Soxtalk has been a hole of a place the last month or so. The Sox front office whiffed on their number one target this offseason and signed a bunch of stiffs, minus the two relievers they acquired, for the very same amount of money they refused to give Machado — around $50 million. Why are you surprised that Sox fans would be upset, especially after Hahn has talked about Machado for over a year? Edited March 20, 2019 by Harper2Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 49 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: Missing out on Machado and Harper is not that issue. The issue is that two players that fit perfectly into the rebuild were passed over because the organization is cheap and the front office response to fans appears to us that they feel we are morons. A player of their talent is not going to be an option for the White Sox in free agency in this rebuild again. It was an epic failure as has been he management of the team under Rick Hahn. That is the issue. Neither guy was overpaid and the White Sox were never in on either. The smoke and bullshit all winter was just that...bullshit. They were never going to get either and they should have had whichever they wanted by forcing the issue. Had they said from day one that they felt the skillset of each player did not warrant the contract fine but the Tanaka signing dog and pony show to in the end not even be close is bad and then for them to talk about their fundamental changes in organization stylings is insulting to any fan paying attention. Nothing changed. They still cannot draft or develop players and they are not willing to sign big name free agents. Kenny Williams was in the front office when the Garland trade happened. The white flag was a rebuild but Rick Hahn wants us fans to believe he is doing something novel. The only thing he is doing is failing miserably at his job. He actually makes KW look good and I hate KW. That is where my thoughts are in regard to the Chicago White Sox. I really hope that changes but it is only getting worse as the season draws near. I understand what you're saying, however, it still would have taken a record setting contract to sign either FA, something that 29 other teams weren't willing to do either. It would have been a perfect fit, but I don't necessarily agree that it was a failure of epic proportions. I'm curious what your huge beef with Hahn is. Why are you placing the enormous amount of blame on him instead of KW or Reinsdorf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: The Sox front office whiffed on their number one target this offseason and signed a bunch of stiffs, minus the two relievers they acquired. Why are you surprised that Sox fans would be upset, especially after Hahn has talked about Machado for over a year? Because we are in the middle of a rebuild. The "stiffs" are here to fill the roster and provide leadership until prospects are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, kevo880 said: Because we are in the middle of a rebuild. The "stiffs" are here to fill the roster and provide leadership until prospects are ready. The stiffs Hahn gave $50 million to is the same amount of money he missed out on Machado by. Give me Machado’s youth and talent over Jon Jay and Yonder Alonso’s “leadership” any day of the week. Edited March 20, 2019 by Harper2Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: The Sox front office whiffed on their number one target this offseason and signed a bunch of stiffs, minus the two relievers they acquired, for the very same amount of money they refused to give Machado — around $50 million. Why are you surprised that Sox fans would be upset, especially after Hahn has talked about Machado for over a year? I am surprised by people who would spent a month complaining about the exact same thing, in the exact same way, though when you have people complaining about things from 40 years ago, I guess I shouldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am surprised by people who would spent a month complaining about the exact same thing, in the exact same way, though when you have people complaining about things from 40 years ago, I guess I shouldn't be. It’s a lot less surprising when you realize that this is the third year of a planned rebuild, the Sox have sucked for many more years than 3, and Hahn missed on his #1 target that he hinted at since last offseason. The Sox also aren’t doing a very good job of dispelling the fan notion that they are cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: It’s a lot less surprising when you realize that this is the third year of a planned rebuild, the Sox have sucked for many more years than 3, and Hahn missed on his #1 target that he hinted at since last offseason. The Sox also aren’t doing a very good job of dispelling the fan notion that they are cheap. The fact that it IS a rebuild is why this shouldn't be a big surprise. If you look at where other teams were at the same time during their rebuilds, they were also losing a 100 games a season. Why is everyone surprised that this team is bad at this stage of a rebuild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The fact that it IS a rebuild is why this shouldn't be a big surprise. If you look at where other teams were at the same time during their rebuilds, they were also losing a 100 games a season. Why is everyone surprised that this team is bad at this stage of a rebuild? I’m personally not so much concerned with the losing as I am with missing out on Machado and Harper and the front office showing no signs of being willing to go to that level to sign a premier FA, meaning they will never land one. Adding Machado for nothing but money, and no associated draft pick compensation, could have been an improvement of 5 to 6 wins in one move. This, to me, is extremely frustrating. Edited March 20, 2019 by Harper2Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The fact that it IS a rebuild is why this shouldn't be a big surprise. If you look at where other teams were at the same time during their rebuilds, they were also losing a 100 games a season. Why is everyone surprised that this team is bad at this stage of a rebuild? Because we had four huge trade hauls to kick things off...a terrible division to boost wins...better broadcasting rights deal than the other four teams in Central...tons of salary flexibility going forward...excitement over Luis Robert signing and his five tool skill set, multiple Top 10-12 draft picks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Because we had four huge trade hauls to kick things off...a terrible division to boost wins...better broadcasting rights deal than the other four teams in Central...tons of salary flexibility going forward...excitement over Luis Robert signing and his five tool skill set, multiple Top 10-12 draft picks, etc. Weren't you just complaining yesterday about me responding to you? You made it a whole 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: I’m personally not so much concerned with the losing as I am with missing out on Machado and Harper and the front office showing no signs of being willing to go to that level to sign a premier FA, meaning they will never land one. Adding Machado for nothing but money, and no associated draft pick compensation, could have been an improvement of 5 to 6 wins in one move. This, to me, is extremely frustrating. Again, finishing 2nd for free agents is what we do. It's exactly why I figured we'd be on the rebuild path for much longer than anyone else did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am surprised by people who would spent a month complaining about the exact same thing, in the exact same way, though when you have people complaining about things from 40 years ago, I guess I shouldn't be. The complaining which offends you so is current and remains relevant. People are complaining about what has happened recently this offseason due to the ineffectiveness of this failed ownership and management team. It just so happens it's the same failed owner who was similarly ineffective 38 years ago, and 30 years ago, and 20 years ago, and 10 years ago. Pretty much for the entirety of the ownership, spanning now nearly 40 decades. But kudos to the bleeding heart who is always able to turn a blind eye to and make excuses for this maddening and continuous ineffectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, Fan O'Faust said: The complaining which offends you so is current and remains relevant. People are complaining about what has happened recently this offseason due to the ineffectiveness of this failed ownership and management team. It just so happens it's the same failed owner who was similarly ineffective 38 years ago, and 30 years ago, and 20 years ago, and 10 years ago. Pretty much for the entirety of the ownership, spanning now nearly 40 decades. But kudos to the bleeding heart who is always able to turn a blind eye to and make excuses for this maddening and continuous ineffectiveness. This is exactly what happens if you spend decades upset about a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Again, finishing 2nd for free agents is what we do. It's exactly why I figured we'd be on the rebuild path for much longer than anyone else did. "...is what we do"? And you are complacent with that? Nothing to complain about or be dissatisfied with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, southsider2k5 said: This is exactly what happens if you spend decades upset about a game. Not a game - the game is great. It's the owner. He has been and continues to be an abysmal disaster to the organization and this beleaguered fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The fact that it IS a rebuild is why this shouldn't be a big surprise. If you look at where other teams were at the same time during their rebuilds, they were also losing a 100 games a season. Why is everyone surprised that this team is bad at this stage of a rebuild? The avialability of those two options with no big team lurking is the issue. Those types of players are not hitting the market and they certainly are not again when all the big boys are looking at their taxes instead of signing them. If they got crazy money fine we can wallow in the $0.50 argument v the $1 but they both signed for $0.50 and we didn't want to spend out $0.50 instead we will spend $0.25 and cry poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, Fan O'Faust said: "...is what we do"? And you are complacent with that? Nothing to complain about or be dissatisfied with? My expiration date is much less than 4 decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Weren't you just complaining yesterday about me responding to you? You made it a whole 24 hours. No...that wasn’t it. It was your having to add the caveat of usually ignoring a comment, which wasn’t really necessary. I’m perfectly content to talk about White Sox positives, when there are some legit ones and not puffery. I have been pretty much 100% positive about both Robert and Madrigal since they were added to the organization. I like Vizquel and Jirschele, too. So life is not miserable. Still have the Cubs’ opponents to cheer for if the Sox come up short, NCAA tourney, Master’s...the very best two week period of the year (unless you love NHL and NBA playoff season more.) Even watched most of the Mariners/A’s game in Tokyo, and won’t forget Ichiro’s numerous contributions to the game or watch Matt Chapman without wishing we’d drafted an absolute stud like that. Also hard not to watch Semien batting with Narvaez catching and wonder what if. I kept it under 10 names for Balta. Hope he appreciates it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Again, finishing 2nd for free agents is what we do. It's exactly why I figured we'd be on the rebuild path for much longer than anyone else did. But why? This isn’t some sort of Cubs curse thing. The Sox payroll was tiny this year and for the foreseeable future. The money was there to spend. It’s either the Sox front office completely bungled the negotiations with Machado or the Sox are simply too cheap and value profits over wins. The rebuild path didn’t need to take much longer when you can add 5 to 6 wins with one player acquisition. Edited March 20, 2019 by Harper2Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: The avialability of those two options with no big team lurking is the issue. Those types of players are not hitting the market and they certainly are not again when all the big boys are looking at their taxes instead of signing them. If they got crazy money fine we can wallow in the $0.50 argument v the $1 but they both signed for $0.50 and we didn't want to spend out $0.50 instead we will spend $0.25 and cry poor They both eventually signed for fair market value...it was Trout who undervalued himself by half the money his historical fWAR numbers merited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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