OneDog847 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lillian said: We've discussed this ad nauseam. Madrigal was the #4 pick in the draft. He is clearly part of the Sox future plans, however he does not profile anywhere, except 2ND base, where he is a potential Gold Glover. Moncada has the arm to play third, and will be fine there. Yes, Yoan would have a better chance at becoming an All Star second baseman, than third baseman, because second is a position that often features defense first, over offense. However, such considerations are not critical to building a winning team. Moncada at 3RD and Madrigal at 2ND, provides the best chance for team success. Isn't that the goal? It is clearly up for debate whether Moncada will be "fine" at third. Remember when Gordon Beckham was the clearly the White Sox future at second base? Jerking around one of the most important pieces of your rebuild for a kid who hasn't even played a single game in AA is not a wise move. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: It is clearly up for debate whether Moncada will be "fine" at third. Remember when Gordon Beckham was the clearly the White Sox future at second base? Jerking around one of the most important pieces of your rebuild for a kid who hasn't even played a single game in AA is not a wise move. Playing third base will not be the reason for Moncada's failure, if he doesn't succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, Lillian said: Playing third base will not be the reason for Moncada's failure, if he doesn't succeed. If we did this with 100 players, I'm betting that 1 of them would actually get screwed up by it. Too much time spent practicing defense, not enough time to work on hitting, develops some bad habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 The Cubs and Dodgers and all these other good teams move guys around to different positions all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: The Cubs and Dodgers and all these other good teams move guys around to different positions all the time. I think there's a big difference between doing those kind of position switches with Cody Bellinger or Kris Bryant, guys who grew up playing baseball and have had professional coaches since they were in middle school, and doing them with a guy like Moncada who clearly has work to do just on knowing the fundamentals, pitch recognition, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I think there's a big difference between doing those kind of position switches with Cody Bellinger or Kris Bryant, guys who grew up playing baseball and have had professional coaches since they were in middle school, and doing them with a guy like Moncada who clearly has work to do just on knowing the fundamentals, pitch recognition, etc. Speaking LAD/CHC, Chris Taylor and Kiki Gonzalez, veterans who grew up knowing they needed to be able to play anywhere to increase their value/versatility. Can add Zobrist and Baez, too. Conversely, has switching positions so frequently hindered the development of the much younger Ian Happ? Or he just sucks wherever they put him? We moved Viciedo from 3B to 1B to LF to RF to DH I think. Josh Fields to left when Crede returned. Of course Uribe was the classic super utility guy after his he ate his way off SS. 9 names. 1 under limit. Edited March 22, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 If he's good at 3rd, it makes sense. Because we have zero in the pipeline at 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 hours ago, OneDog847 said: It is clearly up for debate whether Moncada will be "fine" at third. Remember when Gordon Beckham was the clearly the White Sox future at second base? Jerking around one of the most important pieces of your rebuild for a kid who hasn't even played a single game in AA is not a wise move. except Gordon Beckham sucked. Nobody is jerking around Moncada. Moncada is fine with it and his stellar play over at 3rd this spring has shown. Like Lillian said...it's not about whether he's fine playing 3rd...which clearly he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Repeat after me, every Sox IF who moves position is not Gordon Beckham. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 21 hours ago, WBWSF said: Madrigal is the White Sox second baseman of the future. And it might be real soon. That being the case, the move of Moncada to 3rd base makes sense. Correct. This is a cut and dried move. Madrigal at second, Tim at SS and now Moncada at third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 23 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Definitely not the OF. If they think he isn't going to be at 2B in the future, I would rather make the move now than later. Let him learn while the results don't matter. Hopefully the FO has put a lot of thought into this move. It certainly makes sense organizationally but so far Moncada has shown he can have problems with the mental aspects of the game. He had a good spring so hopefully his offense will be there as the season starts there and the defense can take a year to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 How is 2b Mocada's "natural position" when he led the league in errors there last season ? We don't yet know what Madrigal's true upside is in terms of hitting for power, but you never know, he could hit like another short guy named Yogi Berra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinski Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Is Moncada a natural baseball player or someone who has thought his way up the rungs of the ladder. clearly he performs best when working of natural instinct. 3 base is a more reaction/instinct position and therefore suits Moncada better I Feel. The madrigal and no other 3b prospect argument just confirms this is clearly the best move now we missed out on the whale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YonderLaroche Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Who cares this trade was a bust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 7 hours ago, tray said: How is 2b Mocada's "natural position" when he led the league in errors there last season ? We don't yet know what Madrigal's true upside is in terms of hitting for power, but you never know, he could hit like another short guy named Yogi Berra. 3 hours ago, Colinski said: Is Moncada a natural baseball player or someone who has thought his way up the rungs of the ladder. clearly he performs best when working of natural instinct. 3 base is a more reaction/instinct position and therefore suits Moncada better I Feel. The madrigal and no other 3b prospect argument just confirms this is clearly the best move now we missed out on the whale. 11 hours ago, SCCWS said: Hopefully the FO has put a lot of thought into this move. It certainly makes sense organizationally but so far Moncada has shown he can have problems with the mental aspects of the game. He had a good spring so hopefully his offense will be there as the season starts there and the defense can take a year to develop. When given the choice of where to put him, 2b, 3b, or outfield, the White Sox immediately said they were going to work him at 2b only. I didn't care which position they put him at as long as they made the choice they thought was best for him...and then stopped screwing with him because he was raw enough that they needed to put him at a spot and let him develop. When given the choice, they said "2b and that's it". He was so raw that no matter where you put him his defense was going to take time to develop and he needed stability and time to work on his offensive game, and the thing that would have the greatest danger of hurting would be making him switch positions a lot. The org didn't have anyone of value at either 2b or 3b, or CF at the time he was acquired, and they immediately said they thought he was the best fit at 2b. So, either the people who made the decision to put him at 2b originally were imbeciles (indictment of the organization), or they're reacting on the fly to how things go (also an indictment of the organization). It's clear they're flying by the seat of their pants and reacting, but they've left themselves no other intelligent options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Moncada is an uninterested defender. He was bad at 2B and he's going to be bad at 3B. He's following the Alfonso Soriano career path. He'll be in LF in a year or two. They couldn't go another season with Yolmer at 3B so they're just buying time until they find an everyday 3B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 16 hours ago, caulfield12 said: 9 names. 1 under limit. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: When given the choice of where to put him, 2b, 3b, or outfield, the White Sox immediately said they were going to work him at 2b only. I didn't care which position they put him at as long as they made the choice they thought was best for him...and then stopped screwing with him because he was raw enough that they needed to put him at a spot and let him develop. When given the choice, they said "2b and that's it". He was so raw that no matter where you put him his defense was going to take time to develop and he needed stability and time to work on his offensive game, and the thing that would have the greatest danger of hurting would be making him switch positions a lot. The org didn't have anyone of value at either 2b or 3b, or CF at the time he was acquired, and they immediately said they thought he was the best fit at 2b. So, either the people who made the decision to put him at 2b originally were imbeciles (indictment of the organization), or they're reacting on the fly to how things go (also an indictment of the organization). It's clear they're flying by the seat of their pants and reacting, but they've left themselves no other intelligent options. But remember Boston brought him up through the lower minors as a 2B. It was only as his reputation grew that they realized Pedroia was blocking him so they moved him his last year to 3B. I thought it made sense that the FO moved him back to 2nd because for us that seemed the shortest route to the bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Gordon Beckham’s problem was and still is... fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, hi8is said: Gordon Beckham’s problem was and still is... fear. Or he was just a bust because of a hitch in his swing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: When given the choice of where to put him, 2b, 3b, or outfield, the White Sox immediately said they were going to work him at 2b only. I didn't care which position they put him at as long as they made the choice they thought was best for him...and then stopped screwing with him because he was raw enough that they needed to put him at a spot and let him develop. When given the choice, they said "2b and that's it". He was so raw that no matter where you put him his defense was going to take time to develop and he needed stability and time to work on his offensive game, and the thing that would have the greatest danger of hurting would be making him switch positions a lot. The org didn't have anyone of value at either 2b or 3b, or CF at the time he was acquired, and they immediately said they thought he was the best fit at 2b. So, either the people who made the decision to put him at 2b originally were imbeciles (indictment of the organization), or they're reacting on the fly to how things go (also an indictment of the organization). It's clear they're flying by the seat of their pants and reacting, but they've left themselves no other intelligent options. Imagine being a white Sox exec and thinking the kid you just drafted to play middle infield, currently in low A ball, is so guaranteed to be a good regular that you move a guy that by most metrics graded out slightly worse than league average to a new position. I mean, this is the fucking WHITE SOX SCOUTING AND DEVELOPMENT TEAM HERE. Nick Madrigal has so much to prove before you even CONSIDER this move. It's beyond stupid. I don't fucking care if Moncada turns into Joe Crede at the hot corner this was not good process and bad process, as we've seen time and time again with this club, will lead to bad results more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Actually I believe if asked Moncada would tell you his natural position is SS, but he did spent most of his time in Cuba playing 3B. I didn't like it at fist but after the Machado fiasco I'm ok with that going forward, hope Madrigal as good as advertised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 It makes more sense that the midget Madrigal plays 2B over Moncada. Also, didn’t Moncada play 3B when he was first called up to the Red Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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