Sox interested in Yolbert Sanchez

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

Not seeing why there's so much outrage over being interested in a fast defensive wizard at SS who doesn't K that much. 

Guys who cover international prospects don't even seem to know much about them, let alone guys sitting in a cubicle on Soxtalk.  How can anyone have such strong feelings about this one way or the other?

Seems like you could answer this by reading the arguments.

[Y2Jimmy0]

32 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He is a one tool guy. How else would you describe that?

This isn't really true. Plus arm, plus speed and defense out of a SS is valuable. He's going to be a top 10 guy in the class. The age is puzzling though. 

[Nardiwashere]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Seems like you could answer this by reading the arguments.

Few of the arguments are based on any information.

The "We shouldn't have 2 million to spend" argument assumes the Sox had no idea he would be available, didn't plan for him, and simply forgot to participate in the international amateur process.

The "I prefer other players" argument is ridiculous because no one here knows anything about any of these guys.  Luis Robert was the biggest Cuban prospect in a couple years and no one even knew how to say his name... some reports said he was slow, etc.  What information do SoxTalk users have about 16 year old kids in the Dominican Republic that they like better?

If they sign him, cool... I hope hes good.  If not, cool... I hope the guys they get end up being good.

[southsider2k5]

18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Well, he's not 1 tool at all. In fact, he has one way above average tool and two above average tools and two tools bordering on average/below average. 

I don't know what to say pal.

With two years to prepare,  I expected better than a no hit defensive specialist to headline things. This is pretty much a worst case scenario. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

Few of the arguments are based on any information.

The "We shouldn't have 2 million to spend" argument assumes the Sox had no idea he would be available, didn't plan for him, and simply forgot to participate in the international amateur process.

The "I prefer other players" argument is ridiculous because no one here knows anything about any of these guys.  Luis Robert was the biggest Cuban prospect in a couple years and no one even knew how to say his name... some reports said he was slow, etc.  What information do SoxTalk users have about 16 year old kids in the Dominican Republic that they like better?

If they sign him, cool... I hope hes good.  If not, cool... I hope the guys they get end up being good.

Your assumption is that the White Sox knew he was going to defect and clear exactly when he did so they punted on their 1st full class in two years for this? This would be worse, not better.

[bmags]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Your assumption is that the White Sox knew he was going to defect and clear exactly when he did so they punted on their 1st full class in two years for this? This would be worse, not better.

Especially when the baltimore orioles have 6 million available to spend in this period, where he is free to spend, where the sox can only offer 300k.

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

The "I prefer other players" argument is ridiculous because no one here knows anything about any of these guys.  Luis Robert was the biggest Cuban prospect in a couple years and no one even knew how to say his name... some reports said he was slow, etc.  What information do SoxTalk users have about 16 year old kids in the Dominican Republic that they like better?

And we were cool with trading one of them for James Shields.

It's an area the Sox need to be much better in, but us arguing about which kid they sign at time of signing is pointless. Or at least more pointless than other argument we may have. 

[BackDoorBreach]

Im just not excited about a 21 year old infield prospect that struggles to hit essentially A+/AA pitching.  I'd rather them save it then waste it on that.  The Sox have been pretty good on picking up LatAm players though so who knows.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

With two years to prepare,  I expected better than a no hit defensive specialist to headline things. This is pretty much a worst case scenario. 

You never know how any of these guys will pan out. The Sox have a history of always going high ceiling low floor over high floor, lower ceiling players. That leads to a lot of busts. 

Sometimes, it's nice to maybe lock up a guy with a higher floor and a perceived lower ceiling. Those guys sometimes becomes superstars too - see Jose Ramirez. Baseball is a tricky game. 

[bmags]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You never know how any of these guys will pan out. The Sox have a history of always going high ceiling low floor over high floor, lower ceiling players. That leads to a lot of busts. 

Sometimes, it's nice to maybe lock up a guy with a higher floor and a perceived lower ceiling. Those guys sometimes becomes superstars too - see Jose Ramirez. Baseball is a tricky game. 

In what world is this true?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Your assumption is that the White Sox knew he was going to defect and clear exactly when he did so they punted on their 1st full class in two years for this? This would be worse, not better.

Would it really shock you if the Sox had an insider in Cuba that said the kid was likely leaving? Given the Sox prowess in Cuba, that would not shock me at all, and I know nothing about the international prospects so I'm not going to throw a fit that we got one guy over another. 

[Nardiwashere]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Your assumption is that the White Sox knew he was going to defect and clear exactly when he did so they punted on their 1st full class in two years for this? This would be worse, not better.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation but it doesn't seem impossible that teams knew/suspected he would defect and be able to plan around the time it would likely take to clear.  In my uninformed opinion, that's what I assume happens every time.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

In what world is this true?

In this world. 

Their prospects, their drafting, all say this pretty clearly. I'm not sure what you're confused by.

The organization had a draft philosophy of extremely toolsy but raw athletes - with great ceilings but dreadful floors. When they traded the farm, the acquired more tools and less production than the opposite; Moncada, Kopech, Cease etc etc. Those were high risk, high reward prospects. The Sox rarely play it safe. Robert was also a high risk, toolsy athlete, with feel issues.

Madrigal is the first guy in a long time that fits the high floor demographic. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Would it really shock you if the Sox had an insider in Cuba that said the kid was likely leaving? Given the Sox prowess in Cuba, that would not shock me at all, and I know nothing about the international prospects so I'm not going to throw a fit that we got one guy over another. 

If they gave up half their dollars in this session for an Ozzie Guillen ceiling,  I don't see how you can be anything but disappointed,  especially if they planned ahead to do it.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

If they gave up half their dollars in this session for an Ozzie Guillen ceiling,  I don't see how you can be anything but disappointed,  especially if they planned ahead to do it.

You are pigeonholing a prospect you know nothing about and have never seen play. That's absurd to me. 

[yesterday333]

 

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If they gave up half their dollars in this session for an Ozzie Guillen ceiling,  I don't see how you can be anything but disappointed,  especially if they planned ahead to do it.

He is in the top 4 for this years intl class... what more do you want?

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You are pigeonholing a prospect you know nothing about and have never seen play. That's absurd to me. 

Absurd is this being the centerpiece of 2 years of work.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, yesterday333 said:

 

He is in the top 4 for this years intl class... what more do you want?

Doubtful he will be top 4 for the session starting July 2nd - more likely in the 7-10 range - but what does that matter? 

I hate to bring this up, as it's painful always... but Tatis was the 30th! ranked international prospect when the Sox signed him. His ceiling, in the eyes of SS2k, was less than Ozzie Guillen. It's not likely someone goes from Tatis to star but it's the exact reason you don't pigeon hole incredibly talented kids with some questions and limitations. 

[Nardiwashere]

1 minute ago, yesterday333 said:

 

He is in the top 4 for this years intl class... what more do you want?

Julio Encarnacion is a 14 year old out of El Palero, Dominican Republic, that I really like.  Advanced hit tool but I don't know if he'll be able to stick in CF in 9 years.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Absurd is this being the centerpiece of 2 years of work.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Prospect rankings for guys in MiLB are inconsistent and unreliable; plenty of guys at the top bust, and plenty of the unranked ones become stars. This after watching these guys play professional baseball stateside. Prospect rankings for international prospects is even worse and less reliable; which is saying something. 

If you trust Paddy, then just sit back and relax. Ideally, a guy like Paddy, would prefer to sign 25 guys than a couple big ones. That's been his MO of success. 

[Jack Parkman]

15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

In this world. 

Their prospects, their drafting, all say this pretty clearly. I'm not sure what you're confused by.

The organization had a draft philosophy of extremely toolsy but raw athletes - with great ceilings but dreadful floors. When they traded the farm, the acquired more tools and less production than the opposite; Moncada, Kopech, Cease etc etc. Those were high risk, high reward prospects. The Sox rarely play it safe. Robert was also a high risk, toolsy athlete, with feel issues.

Madrigal is the first guy in a long time that fits the high floor demographic. 

Hahahahaha. The Sox have a history of high ceiling low floor guys, in the draft. You couldn't be more wrong. The guys they acquired in their trades were high risk/reward but in the draft they tend to go the opposite direction. Everyone was shocked with the guys they acquired via trade, and some of these guys need to hit big otherwise they'll just get super conservative again. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Doubtful he will be top 4 for the session starting July 2nd - more likely in the 7-10 range - but what does that matter? 

I hate to bring this up, as it's painful always... but Tatis was the 30th! ranked international prospect when the Sox signed him. His ceiling, in the eyes of SS2k, was less than Ozzie Guillen. It's not likely someone goes from Tatis to star but it's the exact reason you don't pigeon hole incredibly talented kids with some questions and limitations. 

Tatis had a ceiling!

[bmags]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

In this world. 

There prospects, their drafting. I'm not sure what you're confused by.

The organization had a draft philosophy of extremely toolsy but raw athletes - with great ceilings but dreadful floors. When they traded the farm, the acquired more tools and less production than the opposite; Moncada, Kopech, Cease etc etc. Those were high risk, high reward prospects. The Sox rarely play it safe. Robert was also a high risk, toolsy athlete, with feel issues.

Madrigal is the first guy in a long time that fits the high floor demographic. 

The white sox overarching philosophy has been college over high school, which is very much about higher floor certainty. 

In the KW and then hahn era, they have veered very safe players save for three drafts: Tim Anderson, Courtney Hawkins and Kris Honel. I think you could argue sale, but at the least people knew he would be a immediate bullpen contributor.

Keenyn Walker/Jared Mitchell are examples of high floor to me. College athletes with plus run and fielding that if they can just learn to hit a little get you a backup outfielder.

Kyle Mccullugh, Lance Broadway. Royce Ring. Rodon, Fulmer, Burdi. All pitchers that were expected to move up quickly and at least have big league futures in bullpen (more for Rodon). Hugely limited ceilings for mccullough and Broadway.

Beckham, Burger, Madrigal, Collins, Fields, college producing bats with mature approaches and limited bodies.

I'm glad they have moncada, but he was already near the bigs. That they had to trade elite, cost controlled major league talent to finally get the types of players that Moncada, Cease, Kopech are should have been a huge sign of the types of risks they should be taking in the draft.

They have not taken them still. Burdi is the classic example. Finally they had 3 top 50 picks where they could bundle up some money for a high schooler in comp round 1, they pay slot for a college reliever missing on players like Trammel and Kieboom. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Hahahahaha. The Sox have a history of high ceiling low floor guys. You couldn't be more wrong. 

Fangraphs has literally done a piece on how the White Sox focused on high ceiling, low floor guys, in this rebuild. But OK bud. I guess I couldn't be more wrong.

When people say things like "you couldn't be more wrong" and then don't tell you why, it's kind of a pointless post. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I couldn't disagree with you more. Prospect rankings for guys in MiLB are inconsistent and unreliable; plenty of guys at the top bust, and plenty of the unranked ones become stars. This after watching these guys play professional baseball stateside. Prospect rankings for international prospects is even worse and less reliable; which is saying something. 

If you trust Paddy, then just sit back and relax. Ideally, a guy like Paddy, would prefer to sign 25 guys than a couple big ones. That's been his MO of success. 

I have yet to talk about his ranking.  I am more interested in his skill set.