Lip Man 1 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Not that the Sox were going to win this game but the bullpen was total crap again and yet another error to start the year by Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: No, I just believe people blame coaches and non-players far too much. Do you think major league players need to be taught where to go to receive a cutoff? Or that a major league catcher needs to be taught to get down on balls and move your body in front of them? Or that he needs to be taught to come to a throw from a short stop who is too far out? As someone who played solely because I could play a very good center field, defensive fundamentals are on the player. You learn those things every step of the way and those arent drills you need to be taught in the big leagues. You learn from 5 through college. Coaches/organization job is to put a player in best position to succeed (see palka, as I said that is the organizations fault because palka is not a mlb outfielder and they shouldnt put him there) but Tim anderson making bone headed throws isnt the coaching staffs fault or the front office. Same goes for yoan, yolmer and etc. Those guys are big league players and big league defenders. Hell the same can be said for Castillo. People dont blame the players enough in professional sports. They should. And this is why our player development sucks...we expect these guys to know everything before they come into the organization. There is a reason our fundamentals are poor year after year and it’s not simply because our players lack baseball IQ and/or focus. I don’t care what profession you’re in, at some point you can’t blame your direct reports for their sloppy work and their failure ultimately fall on the manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said: I personally feel there is enough blame to go around from the players themselves being "baseball-stupid" to the organization teaching them from the minor league level on up to the big club. My point is Tim anderson hasnt made 3 errors in 2 games because Ricky wasnt running enough infield. Tim made errors because he loses focus - he admitted such last year which makes this more embarrassing for him. The basic fundamentals of the game arent taught in the major leagues. Nick Madrigal will not play sloppy baseball and it's not because he was taught differently in the minors. Maybe the organization is poor at identifying that in players. That is possible but the players are still the dopes in that scenario too. The front office are just dope promoters at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: He does? I thought they claimed him off waivers, which would mean he was out with the Twins. Nope. The Twins chose to remove him from the 40, which required him to go on waivers. He still had options though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: And this is why our player development sucks...we expect these guys to know everything before they come into the organization. There is a reason our fundamentals are poor year after year and it’s not simply because our players lack baseball IQ and/or focus. I don’t care what profession you’re in, at some point you can’t blame your direct reports for their sloppy work and their failure ultimately fall on the manager. Rick Renteria didnt work his way up through the minor league ranks to big league manager without having the ability to teach young players skill development. I'm not a big fan of Rick - as hes far too old school for me - but the guy understands the fundamentals of the game. If I went to college and didnt know basic fundamentals I wouldnt play an inning. If I didnt know where to meet a cutoff, what base to throw too, which base to back up, and etc I wouldnt play. These guys know the fundamentals... well, maybe not palka lol. Edited March 30, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Rick Renteria didnt work his way up through the minor league ranks to big league manager without having the ability to teach young players skill development. If I went to college and didnt know basic fundamentals I wouldnt play an inning. If I didnt know where to meet a cutoff, what base to throw too, which base to back up, and etc I wouldnt play. These guys know the fundamentals... well, maybe not palka lol. Fans have no confidence in RR at this point in his tenure. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Maybe the Sox just have bad luck too. The best story I remember for how did that happen... only the Sox... is Jayson nix. Nix was the BEST defensive 2nd baseman in the minor leagues. Legendarily good down there defensively. Guy comes to the Sox and was the worst 2nd baseman in baseball it felt like. It was hilarious and sad at the same time. Jayson Nix glove pulled a Chuck Knoblach on him and no one can/could explain it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Rick Renteria didnt work his way up through the minor league ranks to big league manager without having the ability to teach young players skill development. I'm not a big fan of Rick - as hes far too old school for me - but the guy understands the fundamentals of the game. If I went to college and didnt know basic fundamentals I wouldnt play an inning. If I didnt know where to meet a cutoff, what base to throw too, which base to back up, and etc I wouldnt play. These guys know the fundamentals... well, maybe not palka lol. Ok, if you don’t think the sloppy play is from a lack of preparation / practice / development, then Hahn is certainly to blame for continually bringing in fundamentally poor players. The point is you can’t blame the players forever because at some point it suggests there is a larger problem at play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Soxfest said: Fans have no confidence in RR at this point in his tenure. Which isn't that important. The bigger question is does the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Soxfest said: Fans have no confidence in RR at this point in his tenure. I cant stand Rick - I edited my post to add that after the fact. He's far too old school for me but the guy understands the fundamentals of the game. He just doesnt understand basic math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Soxfest said: Fans have no confidence in RR at this point in his tenure. I used to have confidence in Cooper as recently as 2017. By July 2018 I lost confidence in their entire coaching staff. They need to clean house, at the very least in coaches. I wouldn't mind if Hahn got whacked too, but he has job security until 2022 probably. The game has passed Cooper by. He was a great pitching coach 10-15 years ago, but by 2015 he was obsolete. Edited March 30, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Maybe the Sox just have bad luck too. The best story I remember for how did that happen... only the Sox... is Jayson nix. Nix was the BEST defensive 2nd baseman in the minor leagues. Legendarily good down there defensively. Guy comes to the Sox and was the worst 2nd baseman in baseball it felt like. It was hilarious and sad at the same time. Jayson Nix glove pulled a Chuck Knoblach on him and no one can/could explain it. You should change your handle to “Look at Rick Hahn Lawyerspeak” if you’re now blaming bad luck for years of poor fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Agree but 10K's are concerning. 6 runs today is nice but it's also against the Royals, so there's an asterisk as well. That's like scoring 8 runs against the White Sox, it's nice but blah it's going to happen a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Ok, if you don’t think the sloppy play is from a lack of preparation / practice / development, then Hahn is certainly to blame for continually bringing in fundamentally poor players. The point is you can’t blame the players forever because at some point it suggests there is a larger problem at play. There is a larger problem but as a professional in anything, you are accountable for your own actions. While Rick continues to put those dopes on the field, it's still their fault that they're dopes. If that makes sense. It's the Sox fault for putting someone like palka out there but its palkas fault he sucks. No one elses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: My point is Tim anderson hasnt made 3 errors in 2 games because Ricky wasnt running enough infield. Tim made errors because he loses focus - he admitted such last year which makes this more embarrassing for him. The basic fundamentals of the game arent taught in the major leagues. Nick Madrigal will not play sloppy baseball and it's not because he was taught differently in the minors. Maybe the organization is poor at identifying that in players. That is possible but the players are still the dopes in that scenario too. The front office are just dope promoters at that point. Anderson reminds me of Alexi. Alexi had all the talent, but did some real stupid things on the field and focus was his problem. I think Anderson has more motivation than Alexi did and I also think that Alexi stopped caring once the team starting losing. But now the Sox have had two middle infielders who have had focus problems. I don't know what that says, but it says something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You should change your handle to “Look at Rick Hahn Lawyerspeak” if you’re now blaming bad luck for years of poor fundamentals. If you think Jayson nix somehow forgot all the fundamentals that made him incredibly good, idk what to tell you. If you think it somehow went away because he didnt take infield or something, idk man. Nix was just a funny story that I'll never forget. Amazing what happened to that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Ok, if you don’t think the sloppy play is from a lack of preparation / practice / development, then Hahn is certainly to blame for continually bringing in fundamentally poor players. The point is you can’t blame the players forever because at some point it suggests there is a larger problem at play. I posted several years ago that Jerry Remy, the Boston color announcer, commented about this during a really bad defensive showing by the White Sox in Boston. He said that as a former infielder, he was amazed that the White Sox do a very limited infield practice before road games. He said most teams do an extensive infield practice especially before the first game to get used to the infield nuances. He was surprised since Ventura was a former infielder. Maybe that has changed under RR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Not that the Sox were going to win this game but the bullpen was total crap again and yet another error to start the year by Anderson. The throwing error on Anderson did pretty much nothing to affect the score of the game. I’m not sure why you are always so reliant on an inherently subjective statistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, SCCWS said: I posted several years ago that Jerry Remy, the Boston color announcer, commented about this during a really bad defensive showing by the White Sox in Boston. He said that as a former infielder, he was amazed that the White Sox do a very limited infield practice before road games. He said most teams do an extensive infield practice especially before the first game to get used to the infield nuances. He was surprised since Ventura was a former infielder. Maybe that has changed under RR. Interesting and honestly it wouldn’t surprise me. There has to be things going on that are contributing to the general sloppiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, SCCWS said: I posted several years ago that Jerry Remy, the Boston color announcer, commented about this during a really bad defensive showing by the White Sox in Boston. He said that as a former infielder, he was amazed that the White Sox do a very limited infield practice before road games. He said most teams do an extensive infield practice especially before the first game to get used to the infield nuances. He was surprised since Ventura was a former infielder. Maybe that has changed under RR. Ventura was the laziest manager in baseball. He was disinterested. Nothing would surprise me there. I dont know what "extensive infield" practice means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, NWINFan said: Anderson reminds me of Alexi. Alexi had all the talent, but did some real stupid things on the field and focus was his problem. I think Anderson has more motivation than Alexi did and I also think that Alexi stopped caring once the team starting losing. But now the Sox have had two middle infielders who have had focus problems. I don't know what that says, but it says something. Alexei could have been a better player with focus but he was what, a top 10 shortstop in baseball for 7-8 years, probably top 5 in a couple of those years? We aren't there yet with Tim unless he gets better somewhere. I could deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: The throwing error on Anderson did pretty much nothing to affect the score of the game. I’m not sure why you are always so reliant on an inherently subjective statistic Doesnt matter. Tim needs to stop with the errors. He's too talented defensively for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Interesting and honestly it wouldn’t surprise me. There has to be things going on that are contributing to the general sloppiness. The last time I saw a White Sox team that was fundamentally sound and convinced me "the coaches are doing a good job" was 2012, under Ventura. Since then it's been a disaster. I have a hypothesis that after the team wore down at the end of 2012 (because their pitchers were so young), Ventura decided they wore down because he made them practice too much and decided to do the exact opposite in 2013, and the end result was a culture of "don't overwork people" settled in and never left. It's at least consistent with the available evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The last time I saw a White Sox team that was fundamentally sound and convinced me "the coaches are doing a good job" was 2012, under Ventura. Since then it's been a disaster. I have a hypothesis that after the team wore down at the end of 2012 (because their pitchers were so young), Ventura decided they wore down because he made them practice too much and decided to do the exact opposite in 2013, and the end result was a culture of "don't overwork people" settled in and never left. It's at least consistent with the available evidence. Teams don't take long infield anymore - across the entire sport. Practice time has been cut in baseball over the past two decades - not just for the white Sox but for everyone. I'm sure a someone who is around the team more can verify that it's not as if other teams are out there for an hour and the Sox spend 5 minutes. It's why I asked what extensive infield is. Teams dont do that anymore. Edited March 30, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The last time I saw a White Sox team that was fundamentally sound and convinced me "the coaches are doing a good job" was 2012, under Ventura. Since then it's been a disaster. I have a hypothesis that after the team wore down at the end of 2012 (because their pitchers were so young), Ventura decided they wore down because he made them practice too much and decided to do the exact opposite in 2013, and the end result was a culture of "don't overwork people" settled in and never left. It's at least consistent with the available evidence. It’s a theory that could theoretically make sense. Like I said, there’s got to be more to the story than just “we got sloppy” players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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