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GameThread: White Sox (Nova) @ Indians (Clevinger)

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1 hour ago, peppers312 said:

i'm not digging through 32 pages of comments, but i'm sure someone already asked - why did Renteria not go with Herrera in the 8th? 

well with no scheduled days off for weeks and it being august and herrera already having 80 innings this year...wait what?

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The white Sox are who we thought they were. An awful team, with bad pitching, awful defense and a moron of a coach. Let’s move on 

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2 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said:

The white Sox are who we thought they were. An awful team, with bad pitching, awful defense and a moron of a coach. Let’s move on 

I agree, feel free to move on. 

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93!?!? I wouldnt have taken him out on 193 the way he was pitching. Pitchers used to pitch 400 innings a season while throwing a sloppy heavy ball.  Plus as DJ and Farmer were saying that our pen guys weren't tested for that situation. No excuses to lose that game. We want to win the game, not play lab rats all season and lose 100 again.

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15 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

93!?!? I wouldnt have taken him out on 193 the way he was pitching. Pitchers used to pitch 400 innings a season while throwing a sloppy heavy ball.  Plus as DJ and Farmer were saying that our pen guys weren't tested for that situation. No excuses to lose that game. We want to win the game, not play lab rats all season and lose 100 again.

Sure let's blow out their arms that's fun

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32 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

93!?!? I wouldnt have taken him out on 193 the way he was pitching. Pitchers used to pitch 400 innings a season while throwing a sloppy heavy ball.  Plus as DJ and Farmer were saying that our pen guys weren't tested for that situation. No excuses to lose that game. We want to win the game, not play lab rats all season and lose 100 again.

Dude. 

The last time someone threw 400 innings was 1908.  In 1908 the slider, the splitter, and the cutter hadn't been invented yet. The spitter was still legal in 1908. I also damned sure can tell you that the average speed being thrown then wasn't in the 90s at all.

Players also destroyed their arms and were never heard from again in 1908.

We also still primarily moved by horse and buggy, primarily communicated by letters, and were without phones, television, and the internet. 

If you'd like to live like it is 1908, feel free to do it. I am fine with 2019.

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Ok let's not be so dramatic. Let's say a starting pitcher has 33 starts and pitches 9 innings every start. That's 297 innings. Steve Carlton pitched 300 innings in 1980. Nova could have finished the game and my bet is he wanted to as well.

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1 minute ago, Chisox378 said:

Ok let's not be so dramatic. Let's say a starting pitcher has 33 starts and pitches 9 innings every start. That's 297 innings. Steve Carlton pitched 300 innings in 1980. Nova could have finished the game and my bet is he wanted to as well.

Pitchers aren't trained to do that anymore. Steve Carlton purposely paced himself to finish games. Pitchers today throw as hard as they can until they are out of gas. Not to mention they've been trained to go not more than 100-115 pitches in a game. For the first game of the season they would not let him go over 100. That's why he didn't piutch into the 8th.

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17 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Ok let's not be so dramatic. Let's say a starting pitcher has 33 starts and pitches 9 innings every start. That's 297 innings. Steve Carlton pitched 300 innings in 1980. Nova could have finished the game and my bet is he wanted to as well.

Dramatic is complaining that guys don't throw 400 innings like they used to because someone only threw 93 pitches in his opener.

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I think one thing we all can agree on.  Renteria isn't a very good manager, and really should be replaced after this season.

Not that it matters much, but when is his contract up? 

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6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think one thing we all can agree on.  Renteria isn't a very good manager, and really should be replaced after this season.

Not that it matters much, but when is his contract up? 

Don't you remember? He got extended in secret. Nobody knows when the hell his contract is up. 

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8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think one thing we all can agree on.  Renteria isn't a very good manager, and really should be replaced after this season.

Not that it matters much, but when is his contract up? 

Eh, managers don't really matter much during games. Keeping the clubhouse engaged and problem free is there primary importance. He seems to do a pretty good job of that.

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Maybe it's not Renteria, maybe someone is telling him "it doesn't matter win or lose, just try guys out, even if we lose a little who cares we can get a better draft pick." That's how our players are playing on the field.

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3 minutes ago, mqr said:

Don't you remember? He got extended in secret. Nobody knows when the hell his contract is up. 

Hah, nah don't recall that off hand.  

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Eh, managers don't really matter much during games. Keeping the clubhouse engaged and problem free is there primary importance. He seems to do a pretty good job of that.

I take it you missed the game yesterday.  Renteria's bullpen management has been horrific so far.  

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Today I learned that I should expect the same from Ivan Nova as I would a first ballot Hall of Famer.

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What? For him to finish 9 innings?!? C'mon stop wimping down the players.

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18 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

What? For him to finish 9 innings?!? C'mon stop wimping down the players.

Look man, I don't know if you're legitimately stuck in the 70s or just on a quest to become the single most roasted poster on this board.

Remember when throwing 100 mph was a rare, holy shit feat? Now the Sox alone have the following guys that can do that.

Reynaldo Lopez, Michael Kopech, Dylan Cease, Ian Hamilton, Zack Burdi, Tyler Johnson, Thyago Vieira

If Burdi and Kopech regain full strength, that's three guys in there (with Vieria) who can regularly reach that.

Hitters have gotten more tools at their disposal to become better hitters. To compensate, pitchers have had to ramp up the pitching strain on their arm. Scouting reports are deeper now.

Workhorses like Justin Verlander are rare nowadays. Chris Sale is gonna be a slam dunk Hall of Famer and routinely wilts late in the summer. If a starter gives you a stellar seven innings, a bullpen should be able to bring it home.

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59 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Hah, nah don't recall that off hand.  

I take it you missed the game yesterday.  Renteria's bullpen management has been horrific so far.  

In the long run it doesn't matter.  Every manager has to put in the last guy in the bullpen at some point even in non-blowout situations. It happens. The next time he puts Covey in he will probably do the job. Over a full season the moves matter very little because many are dictated by bullpen use and not pitching the best guys too many days in a row.

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18 minutes ago, ptatc said:

In the long run it doesn't matter.  Every manager has to put in the last guy in the bullpen at some point even in non-blowout situations. It happens. The next time he puts Covey in he will probably do the job. Over a full season the moves matter very little because many are dictated by bullpen use and not pitching the best guys too many days in a row.

Generally agree that managers do not matter all that much.  Disagree about yesterday.  No reason to have used Herrera on back to back days Saturday and Sunday considering the game circumstances.  Then not use him when he was actually needed on Monday.  Putting the worst pitcher on the roster in when the game in on the line in the 8th is horrible bullpen management and isn't something that evens out in the long run.  They have the day off today and again on Friday, those guys could have been used.  Even Jones or Burr would have been better options than Covey. The Sox are spending about 20% of the teams payroll this season on Herrera and Colome, and one of those dudes should have been used in that spot.

All around horrific job managing the pen by Renteria so far.  You won't convince me otherwise.    

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5 hours ago, Whitesox27 said:

Yeah I don't know how people could blame anyone but Yolmer for yesterday's loss. The complexion of the inning is totally different if he makes that play. Covey might have been able to get out of a bases loaded, 2 out situation. Instead Yolmer botched an easy play like a little leaguer and the floodgates opened. I'm not a huge Covey fan but I don't think he was at fault for yesterday.

I think you can blame Ricky as well.  The strongest part of this team should be the Herrera-Colome tandem.   That is a backend that would play on many contending teams.  That game seemed perfectly set up to use your 2 best bullpen guys in a close game in the 8th and 9th.  Isn't that how you draw it up? 

But they apparently available because they had worked two days in a row.  With one of those days, being a situation in which both pitched with the team down 2 runs.  Not to mention there was an off day the next day.

I can't blame Covey.  He shouldn't have been in.  Why sign Herrera and trade for Colome if you aren't going to use them in the text book situation for them. 

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2 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

I think you can blame Ricky as well.  The strongest part of this team should be the Herrera-Colome tandem.   That is a backend that would play on many contending teams.  That game seemed perfectly set up to use your 2 best bullpen guys in a close game in the 8th and 9th.  Isn't that how you draw it up? 

But they apparently available because they had worked two days in a row.  With one of those days, being a situation in which both pitched with the team down 2 runs.  Not to mention there was an off day the next day.

I can't blame Covey.  He shouldn't have been in.  Why sign Herrera and trade for Colome if you aren't going to use them in the text book situation for them. 

Bingo.  Who cares if they have to go three days in a row?  There's an off day today and it's April.  It's not like these guys have 100 innings under their belt and it's late August.

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20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Generally agree that managers do not matter all that much.  Disagree about yesterday.  No reason to have used Herrera on back to back days Saturday and Sunday considering the game circumstances.  Then not use him when he was actually needed on Monday.  Putting the worst pitcher on the roster in when the game in on the line in the 8th is horrible bullpen management and isn't something that evens out in the long run.  They have the day off today and again on Friday, those guys could have been used.  Even Jones or Burr would have been better options than Covey. The Sox are spending about 20% of the teams payroll this season on Herrera and Colome, and one of those dudes should have been used in that spot.

All around horrific job managing the pen by Renteria so far.  You won't convince me otherwise.    

I'm not defending Renteria, just saying it really doesn't matter much in the long run. He and Cooper will make more questionable moves but they will work out. Just like they will make moves that are the best choices and they won't work out. The way Jones threw in the Spring he may not have been a better option. 

If Ned Yost can win a World Series any manager can. It more about the players performing when called upon. 

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17 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Bingo.  Who cares if they have to go three days in a row?  There's an off day today and it's April.  It's not like these guys have 100 innings under their belt and it's late August.

Ask Morrow about that. I'm sure they don't want to injure the players that are actually proven by pitching them too early too often in the season.

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2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Ask Morrow about that. I'm sure they don't want to injure the players that are actually proven by pitching them too early too often in the season.

Right. And hasn't Herrera been dealing with an injury all spring?

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Just now, soxfan2014 said:

Right. And hasn't Herrera been dealing with an injury all spring?

Has he?  I thought they were just taking it easy with him because of his foot injury last season 

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