poppysox Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Alonso has been a pleasant surprise for me. Our line-up looks far more hit-er-ish ( my word) since he replaced Davidson types we have used. Hard to explain since he is hitting for little or no BA. He takes walks and every hit seems to be a rope. He passes the eye test. His defense is also a nice plus over previous Abreau backups. Type of veterans to have as we wait for the next wave. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I am not crazy about the pick up just because it helped Cleveland clear some payroll that they did not want to pay and he was part of just a stupid ploy by Hahn but I agree he has looked good so far. He is definitely a professional hitter up there and his defense has been good when at 1B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I was thinking about this yesterday. With Yonder in the mix, it feels like the team has a true DH, which is not something they've had since Adam Dunn. And he has looked pretty good at 1st. I like the tandem of Yonder and Jose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, wegner said: I am not crazy about the pick up just because it helped Cleveland clear some payroll that they did not want to pay and he was part of just a stupid ploy by Hahn but I agree he has looked good so far. He is definitely a professional hitter up there and his defense has been good when at 1B. People keep saying this but why does it matter? Cleveland cleared payroll for this season but for what gain? It’s not like they signed anyone of significance with the additional payroll flexibility and he was gone for them after this season anyway. I didn’t think Cleveland’s downfall would really start until next season but they seem extremely vulnerable to losing the division this season. They may have a tough time fending off the Twins, especially if Lindor misses a significant amount of time. Edited April 4, 2019 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: People keep saying this but why does it matter? Cleveland cleared payroll for this season but for what gain? It’s not like they signed anyone of significance with the additional payroll flexibility and he was gone for them after this season anyway. I didn’t think Cleveland’s downfall would really start until next season but they seem extremely vulnerable to losing the division this season. They may have a tough time fending off the Twins, especially if Lindor misses a significant amount of time. You make a good point. Thanks for correcting me. I guess I am just annoyed at the stupid way they pursued Machado. Alonso works well on our roster...I just don't think they truly pursued him because he is a good fit for the Sox. But if it works out great. I have been very pleasantly surprised with his play so far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: People keep saying this but why does it matter? Cleveland cleared payroll for this season but for what gain? It’s not like they signed anyone of significance with the additional payroll flexibility and he was gone for them after this season anyway. I didn’t think Cleveland’s downfall would really start until next season but they seem extremely vulnerable to losing the division this season. They may have a tough time fending off the Twins, especially if Lindor misses a significant amount of time. He hasn't arrived yet because he signed late and they're working him in the minors as a spring training, but they signed Carlos Gonzalez with about 1/3 of that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, wegner said: You make a good point. Thanks for correcting me. I guess I am just annoyed at the stupid way they pursued Machado. Alonso works well on our roster...I just don't think they truly pursued him because he is a good fit for the Sox. But if it works out great. I have been very pleasantly surprised with his play so far. I’ve thought both Alonso and Jay were fine one season additions regardless of the Machado pursuit. Who else would the Sox be running out there in their place? Palka and Engel/García? We already know what we have there and it’s not pretty. None of those guys should be on the MLB roster for the next contending team anyways. At least Alonso and Jay provide some strength to the top of the lineup to relieve some of the pressure on the young guys as they develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: He hasn't arrived yet because he signed late and they're working him in the minors as a spring training, but they signed Carlos Gonzalez with about 1/3 of that money. 33 year old Carlos Gonzalez outside of Coors won’t be pretty. Again, who did they sign of significance with the money saved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tony said: That's the thing....he doesn't really. Yonder Alonso is not a bad baseball player, and just as a player he isn't a terrible acquisition. The problem is by acquiring Yonder for the 2019 White Sox, the Sox totally killed any sort of lineup flexibility that would have previously existed. Yonder and Abreu are your starting 1B and DH. That's it. Because of that, it forces a terrible defensive RF in Palka to have to play the field. When Jon Jay comes back, it becomes even a little more complicated with who is playing CF, who takes RF, etc. We all know the move was made for Machado. If it worked, the 1B/DH problem would still be an issue, but you'd be able to overlook it because the Sox got Manny. Now that they don't, it just amplifies that it's a really bad roster decision. It’s only an issue because Palka is on the roster and, quite frankly, he shouldn’t be. Alonso can at least play a position in the field competently. Palka can’t. He’s the problem, especially because his hitting doesn’t justify him holding down a roster spot as a DH only. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: 33 year old Carlos Gonzalez outside of Coors won’t be pretty. Again, who did they sign of significance with the money saved? And yet last year he out-hit 31 year old Yonder Alonso (including park adjustments). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: And yet last year he out-hit 31 year old Yonder Alonso (including park adjustments). Ah, but what about the first 5 games this year? Check mate. It would be really nice if we were able to organically produce .730 OPS first baseman and not need to pay $9 million for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And yet last year he out-hit 31 year old Yonder Alonso (including park adjustments). Not that this detracts from your point at all, but Gonzalez had a 96 wRC+ and Alonso had a 97 wRC+. Check mate! Edited April 4, 2019 by OmarComing25 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And yet last year he out-hit 31 year old Yonder Alonso (including park adjustments). Last year, Alonso 97 wRC+, Gonzalez 96 wRC+. You won’t want to see the comparison in 2017 since it won’t fit your narrative. I’d bet Alonso has a greater wRC+ than Gonzalez again this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Last year, Alonso 97 wRC+, Gonzalez 96 wRC+. You won’t want to see the comparison in 2017 since it won’t fit your narrative. I’d bet Alonso has a greater wRC+ than Gonzalez again this year. But he's $6 million cheaper. That they can get comparative production at 1/3rd of the cost is why cleveland was helped by the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Last year, Alonso 97 wRC+, Gonzalez 96 wRC+. You won’t want to see the comparison in 2017 since it won’t fit your narrative. I’d bet Alonso has a greater wRC+ than Gonzalez again this year. in OPS+ Cargo is slightly higher last year. But if your point is that Alonso isn't that good of a hitter, I agree. But you described Alonso as a "Fine one season addition" above, isn't CarGo also a "Fine addition" for far less money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Just now, bmags said: But he's $6 million cheaper. That they can get comparative production at 1/3rd of the cost is why cleveland was helped by the trade. And what have they done to improve their team with the $6M they saved? They are running out a poor defensive 1b and old man Hanley at DH. It’s great to save money and all but it doesn’t mean anything for the wins column if you don’t spend it to address other weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: in OPS+ Cargo is slightly higher last year. But if your point is that Alonso isn't that good of a hitter, I agree. But you described Alonso as a "Fine one season addition" above, isn't CarGo also a "Fine addition" for far less money? Sure, if the Sox had added Cargo on a one year deal I would have been fine with it. He’s an upgrade over Palka. Did the extra $6M that Alonso cost the Sox prevent them from signing anyone of significance? (and no it wasn’t a factor in the Machado signing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And what have they done to improve their team with the $6M they saved? They are running out a poor defensive 1b and old man Hanley at DH. It’s great to save money and all but it doesn’t mean anything for the wins column if you don’t spend it to address other weaknesses. Well, unfortunately they have hard spending constraints, despite that they've averaged 86 wins this decade. Perhaps this savings allowed them to keep their starting pitching in tact for one more run. The white sox, knowing the indians have spending constraints, therefore helped quite a bit in lowering those constraints and gained very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Sure, if the Sox had added Cargo on a one year deal I would have been fine with it. He’s an upgrade over Palka. Did the extra $6M that Alonso cost the Sox prevent them from signing anyone of significance? (and no it wasn’t a factor in the Machado signing) That $6m specifically? Maybe, maybe not on its own, but along with a few other moves? Definitely. They spent $44 million in new money this year, not counting offering arbitration to Abreu, and I can think of at least 1 player they missed on by exactly $50 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: That $6m specifically? Maybe, maybe not on its own, but along with a few other moves? Definitely. They spent $44 million in new money this year, not counting offering arbitration to Abreu, and I can think of at least 1 player they missed on by exactly $50 million. Just because they spent that money on multiple players this season doesn’t mean they were willing to spend that same money on Machado. And yes, I’m glad they missed on Machado. The Padres did the Sox a favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital G Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I like Yonder on this team. He plays a good first base. Here are the real problems. Abrue should play 1st on rare occasions Palka should not be on the team. I'd rather see Cordell play daily until Jay is back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, bmags said: Well, unfortunately they have hard spending constraints, despite that they've averaged 86 wins this decade. Perhaps this savings allowed them to keep their starting pitching in tact for one more run. The white sox, knowing the indians have spending constraints, therefore helped quite a bit in lowering those constraints and gained very little. Couldn’t one argue that in the long term this approach actually helps the Sox? The Sox aren’t contenders this year anyway. So if the Indians were helped ever so slightly this year who cares? Let the Indians hold on to their starters another year as they try to contend this year, which only further diminishes their trade value (age plus years of control) and pushes their rebuild back another year or more once they do tear it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Couldn’t one argue that in the long term this approach actually helps the Sox? The Sox aren’t contenders this year anyway. So if the Indians were helped ever so slightly this year who cares? Let the Indians hold on to their starters another year as they try to contend this year, which only further diminishes their trade value (age plus years of control) and pushes their rebuild back another year or more once they do tear it down. They should have given them a good player back then too. Really doubled down on making their rival better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 ALANSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) Alonso provides a much needed left handed presence in the middle of the order. You all know the value, which I place on that. With Palka's slow start, that importance is magnified. I love the current sequence of hitters, in the lineup; SW, SW, RH, LH, RH, LH. Those first 6 hitters represent the main run producing portion of most lineups. It will be interesting to see what they do when Jay returns. Unless either Leury cools off, or Yolmer starts hitting, they may give Leury some time at 2ND, and relegate Sanchez to the back up infielder. Edited April 4, 2019 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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