ptatc Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, Greg Hibbard said: I guess my perspective is that I would be much more worried if Moncada was 4-35 with 13 Ks right now and Eloy wasn't hitting, but the team was somehow 6-4. No doubt. It's still all about the progress of the prospects and building a winning team for next year and beyond. This year was rendered moot for winning when Kopech went down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Jake said: Here's something worth knowing about Ervin Santana: His name is not Ervin. His real name is Johan. Coming up through the minors he decided he didn't want to be confused with *the* Johan Santana. Did he take on his middle name? Nope. He just picked Ervin because he thought it sounded cool. I find that to be hilarious Too bad he can't pitch like The Johan Santana I know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: Also, are we blaming things like Kopech's injury on Hahn's ability to rebuild? What about Carlos Rodon's loss of command/velocity? Is that also Hahn's fault? What about Giolito's or Lopez's issues in taking the next step? All of these assets were universally lauded as great pieces. There really wasn't anyone who wasn't high on these players. At some point, when things that seem like low-probability events keep happening, you have to say "Wait a second, maybe our understanding of the likelihood was wrong". If we thought all of these guys were "universally lauded as great pieces" and they all systematically blow up, then somehow the way the franchise determined that they were great pieces has a systematic flaw in it. One possibility is that it is just way, way tougher to project pitching than we think...and as a consequence, trying to base a rebuild on acquiring pitching prospects is a terrible idea. Basing the rebuild on a huge load of pitching prospects is to the letter what Rick Hahn did. It could be that basic - pitching prospects look nice, but acquiring a bunch of them could remain a path that doesn't work. It could also be that we are just doing a terrible job in developing them, and that the fault lies somewhere with the hires of the organization. That is another potential possibility. Finally, it could be that while those players were "universally lauded", the reason they were available is that internally teams had decided they were much riskier and that's why they were available in the first place. In that case, our organization was fooled by the "Universal lauding" and did not do effective homework on them. Note that all of these would land blame at the same desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, GradMc said: Too bad he can't pitch like The Johan Santana I know Twins version or Mets version? Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I didn't say that. I said it wasn't outside the realms of possibility. No you didn't. Read it again. That may not be what you meant but that's what you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: Also, we hit a buzzsaw with this homestand with literally the two hottest teams in the American League AND last year's Cy Young winner. We were gonna be 2-4 / 1-5. Do people really think that Seattle is all that good? Prior to the season in the "predict the first month" thread people were saying they were worse than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, OneDog847 said: Leave him out there and let him take it on the chin. This whole season is basically just Spring Training for the Sox anyways. I'd rather lose with 'stars" of the future up here taking their lumps. Of course that'll never happen because of player control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: At some point, when things that seem like low-probability events keep happening, you have to say "Wait a second, maybe our understanding of the likelihood was wrong". If we thought all of these guys were "universally lauded as great pieces" and they all systematically blow up, then somehow the way the franchise determined that they were great pieces has a systematic flaw in it. One possibility is that it is just way, way tougher to project pitching than we think...and as a consequence, trying to base a rebuild on acquiring pitching prospects is a terrible idea. Basing the rebuild on a huge load of pitching prospects is to the letter what Rick Hahn did. It could be that basic - pitching prospects look nice, but acquiring a bunch of them could remain a path that doesn't work. It could also be that we are just doing a terrible job in developing them, and that the fault lies somewhere with the hires of the organization. That is another potential possibility. Finally, it could be that while those players were "universally lauded", the reason they were available is that internally teams had decided they were much riskier and that's why they were available in the first place. In that case, our organization was fooled by the "Universal lauding" and did not do effective homework on them. Note that all of these would land blame at the same desk. Kopech's injury - I'm sorry, but that was just bad luck. He was looking phenomenal. I refuse to blame that on systematic issues - it would have happened at the minors if it didn't happen here. We lost a year of control, but I refuse to blame that on anyone. It just sucks. This rebuild doesn't really totally center around pitching. It's built quite a bit around Moncada and Eloy being elite players. We'll see how that pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: No you didn't. Read it again. That may not be what you meant but that's what you wrote. I said "minor feeling" which was intended to infer there was an outside chance that Kenny is making the decisions. The problem, again, is the organizational structure that is intended to make it impossible to point the finger at either Hahn or KW. The fanbase doesn't know who is actually making baseball decisions, and that is the point. Edited April 9, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) Ervin Santana blows, so does Hahn for wasting money on him and many other reasons, the Sox are terrible, but we will have another good draft pick after this season. Did I miss anything? Edited April 9, 2019 by Harper2Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Do people really think that Seattle is all that good? Prior to the season in the "predict the first month" thread people were saying they were worse than us. Hottest. NOT best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: Kopech's injury - I'm sorry, but that was just bad luck. He was looking phenomenal. I refuse to blame that on systematic issues - it would have happened at the minors if it didn't happen here. We lost a year of control, but I refuse to blame that on anyone. It just sucks. This rebuild doesn't really totally center around pitching. It's built quite a bit around Moncada and Eloy being elite players. We'll see how that pans out. Out of the Sale, Eaton, and Quintana trades, the prospects coming back included 5 pitchers, 2 elite position talents, and one minor position talent (Basabe) plus filler. If we get very little out of those 5 pitching prospects, then we've basically traded away 3 all stars to hopefully generate 2? Better do some really good drafting if that's the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Do people really think that Seattle is all that good? Prior to the season in the "predict the first month" thread people were saying they were worse than us. Every team can look great for a couple of weeks. The Sox caught them when they were hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Out of the Sale, Eaton, and Quintana trades, the prospects coming back included 5 pitchers, 2 elite position talents, and one minor position talent (Basabe) plus filler. If we get very little out of those 5 pitching prospects, then we've basically traded away 3 all stars to hopefully generate 2? Better do some really good drafting if that's the case... Call me crazy, but I still think Michael Kopech might be a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: He's a relic of an era of baseball's past. Other than Matt Thornton, I've never understood the fascination with Coop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusO1274 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, beaks99 said: This is an utter disgrace of a team...worse then the last couple of years... We are 4-5 years away at best...ZERO faith that Hahn can rebuild... Hahn is a joke and his acquisitions are unbearable...your starting right fielder, catcher and 2nd baseman have a total of 6 hits all season... Castillo, Alonso, Jay, Santana, etc.....train wreck.... Poor Jason Bennittedi...so much enthusiasm and he has to announce all of these games... If the team is not looking good in a year or 2 what makes you and others think the team will be "rebuilt" in 4-5 years. If this team is not looking a lot better next year and looking good in 2 years then the rebuild has failed and there is no reason to think it will start to come together in 4 or 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Always liked Meadows. Gonna be a solid player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Good lord Frare is a gas can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Maybe this is the year we get the #1 pick overall. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Wonderful day for a baseball g...*checks gameday*.............the fuck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I said "minor feeling" which was intended to infer there was an outside chance that Kenny is making the decisions. The problem, again, is the organizational structure that is intended to make it impossible to point the finger at either Hahn or KW. The fanbase doesn't know who is actually making baseball decisions, and that is the point. The organizational structure should be constructed that you can't put the blame on one person. Because no single person should have all the control. People should work together to benefit the team. Everyone has strength and weaknesses and they should complement one another. It shouldn't be designed so the fans can blame a single person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, SoxAce said: Always liked Meadows. Gonna be a solid player. Tyler Glasnow getting fixed won them that deal already. He is nasty. For all the people who want Coop to get fired. Ray Searage is widely regarded as the best in the game and Glasnow struggled in Pittsburgh. It‘s not an exact science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: Kopech's injury - I'm sorry, but that was just bad luck. He was looking phenomenal. I refuse to blame that on systematic issues - it would have happened at the minors if it didn't happen here. We lost a year of control, but I refuse to blame that on anyone. It just sucks. This rebuild doesn't really totally center around pitching. It's built quite a bit around Moncada and Eloy being elite players. We'll see how that pans out. I think a guy trying to throw a ball 110 mph in the offseaon ultimately requiring tj surgery shouldn't be shocking to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 runs before 6 out, LFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, GermanSoxFan said: Tyler Glasnow getting fixed won them that deal already. He is nasty. For all the people who want Coop to get fired. Ray Searage is widely regarded as the best in the game and Glasnow struggled in Pittsburgh. It‘s not an exact science. Glasnow would be throwing 91 with an "improved cutter" walking 2 an inning if he was on the Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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