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The Rick Hahn Dynasty

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The Sox have been so bad that I've stopped paying attention to baseball, even though it was my favorite sport for a long time. 

 

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10 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

If Colome continues to pitch well he will be flipped in a couple months. I'm not sure what the long term plan at catcher is. Throw Collins and Zavala out there next year and let them sink or swim? 

  I believe the phrase is "stink or swim".

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The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it.  For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects.  And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games?  Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball.  Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321.  Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings.  Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure?   Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats.  Dylan Cease was great in his first start.  Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games.  Hansen looks to be on the road back.  Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??   

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26 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it.  For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects.  And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games?  Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball.  Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321.  Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings.  Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure?   Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats.  Dylan Cease was great in his first start.  Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games.  Hansen looks to be on the road back.  Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??   

The negativity is because they're going to have to trade away prospects to supplement the roster rather than just spend money because Uncle Jerry was too cheap to sign Harper or Machado. The other options quickly disappeared. 

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37 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it.  For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects.  And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games?  Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball.  Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321.  Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings.  Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure?   Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats.  Dylan Cease was great in his first start.  Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games.  Hansen looks to be on the road back.  Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??   

Good you bring a positive spin.  I will give you one thing, Nick Madrigal is the best pure hitter in this organization. 

The problem I see is that the pick ups we make, even the little offseason moves, and the hitters we take, are strikeout kings, not good contact, they do have a little power, but overall not good hitters. But when you have Thome giving advice who was second all time in K's what do you expect.

Edited by Chisox378

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44 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it.  For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects.  And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games?  Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball.  Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321.  Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings.  Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure?   Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats.  Dylan Cease was great in his first start.  Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games.  Hansen looks to be on the road back.  Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??   

Because they have a proven track record of a couple decades that they don't have a clue how to draft or develop prospects + add in that they are still hamstrung by a cheapass billionaire owner = they need every single one of these players to pan out to have any real chance at more than 1-2 playoff appearances because there will not be another wave of talent behind them.

Also - Manny wasn't signed over 5 million f'ing dollars a year ultimately.  Meanwhile: Nova, Santana, Alonso, Jay are on this roster costing 3-4x that amount and over the next decade there will ALWAYS be guys like that wasting space and money on the roster 

Edited by jenksycat
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11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

None, none whatsoever of those teams started off with the advantage of 3 players to trade from your somehow garbage organization that the White Sox started off with. That was like 3 drafts worth of big league quality talent gifted to us as a head start. That should start mattering, well, now, if it ever is going to.

This is a very true statement. We are currently in the most difficult part of the rebuild. Hahn has to find a way to put quality players around Moncada, Anderson, Rodon, and Eloy. That isn't going to be easy if JR won't open up the wallet. 

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26 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

This is a very true statement. We are currently in the most difficult part of the rebuild. Hahn has to find a way to put quality players around Moncada, Anderson, Rodon, and Eloy. That isn't going to be easy if JR won't open up the wallet. 

The money will be spent.

The White Sox just don't deal with reality. From free agents all they way to their  ticket buyers. They think people will pay $100 a ticket to sit in the Goose Island thing in RF. Turns out yesterday just about the only people sitting there were people who got freebies walking into the park. There was no one there at the end of the game. 

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1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it.  For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects.  And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games?  Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball.  Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321.  Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings.  Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure?   Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats.  Dylan Cease was great in his first start.  Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games.  Hansen looks to be on the road back.  Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??   

THANK YOU. This board has become a lunatic asylum. As long as Moncada makes progress, Anderson is good, Eloy makes strides, we get one serviceable pitcher out of Giolito or Lopez, and we can stay injury free, our 2019 objectives have been achieved. REGARDLESS OF OUR RECORD.

Edited by Greg Hibbard

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45 minutes ago, jenksycat said:

Because they have a proven track record of a couple decades that they don't have a clue how to draft or develop prospects + add in that they are still hamstrung by a cheapass billionaire owner = they need every single one of these players to pan out to have any real chance at more than 1-2 playoff appearances because there will not be another wave of talent behind them.

Also - Manny wasn't signed over 5 million f'ing dollars a year ultimately.  Meanwhile: Nova, Santana, Alonso, Jay are on this roster costing 3-4x that amount and over the next decade there will ALWAYS be guys like that wasting space and money on the roster 

We had a Kenny Williams problem.  He took over a 95 win team with the #1 rated farm system in 2000 and left a dumpster fire 12 years later.  But because we had some amazing parts in Sale and Quintana we tried for a few years to limp into the playoffs and hope for a dominant pitching run.  December 2016 we started the rebuild.  New gm,  New team building plan,  New minor league coaches, New drafting philosophy...and I think two years on there is a ton of hope.  Yes we didn't get Machado...but we weren't winning this year and Moncada has looked great at 3rd...and in theory we have $250 million to spend on parts we need more next year.  Maybe the plan won't work but by God it seems like a reasonable plan that is working...with time.   

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8 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

We had a Kenny Williams problem.  He took over a 95 win team with the #1 rated farm system in 2000 and left a dumpster fire 12 years later.  But because we had some amazing parts in Sale and Quintana we tried for a few years to limp into the playoffs and hope for a dominant pitching run.  December 2016 we started the rebuild.  New gm,  New team building plan,  New minor league coaches, New drafting philosophy...and I think two years on there is a ton of hope.  Yes we didn't get Machado...but we weren't winning this year and Moncada has looked great at 3rd...and in theory we have $250 million to spend on parts we need more next year.  Maybe the plan won't work but by God it seems like a reasonable plan that is working...with time.   

New GM? Rick Hahn was the official GM long before December 2016. This is revisionist history at its finest. 

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17 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

New GM? Rick Hahn was the official GM long before December 2016. This is revisionist history at its finest. 

He was also the assistant GM before that for like forever.

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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

The money will be spent.

The White Sox just don't deal with reality. From free agents all they way to their  ticket buyers. They think people will pay $100 a ticket to sit in the Goose Island thing in RF. Turns out yesterday just about the only people sitting there were people who got freebies walking into the park. There was no one there at the end of the game. 

Even the great Brooks Boyer can’t put whipped cream on a pile of sh!t.  😂

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Guys - tonight i'm going to do it.

I'm going to add up the WAR of all of Ricks free agents through 2018 and compare it to the money paid.

I'll put it in a google sheets and maybe if anyone else wants to join we could get an actual comparison on other teams

The hard part is there is a bit of an art where you have to decide which guys were real free agents vs. just looking at the transaction log. Easy to do for white sox, harder for other teams.

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Guys - tonight i'm going to do it.

I'm going to add up the WAR of all of Ricks free agents through 2018 and compare it to the money paid.

I'll put it in a google sheets and maybe if anyone else wants to join we could get an actual comparison on other teams

The hard part is there is a bit of an art where you have to decide which guys were real free agents vs. just looking at the transaction log. Easy to do for white sox, harder for other teams.

I would just do if for the Sox and see how the numbers shake our first.  You can probably use the $8M/WAR as the starting point for a comparison and go from there.  My guess is it will be so ugly that seeing how other teams have done won’t be necessary.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I would just do if for the Sox and see how the numbers shake our first.  You can probably use the $8M/WAR as the starting point for a comparison and go from there.  My guess is it will be so ugly that seeing how other teams have done won’t be necessary.

Oh I have a pretty good idea how it's going to shake out. 

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17 hours ago, WBWSF said:

This is the 7th year of the Rick Hahn Dynasty. I never thought for one minute that the White Sox would sign Harper or Machado. I wasn't the least bit upset when they signed elsewhere. This  team is never going to spend $300 million on any player. I did think that Hahn would upgrade the pitching staff. He did upgrade the back of the bullpen. He did nothing to improve the starting pitching. This starting rotation could go down in history as the worse in franchise history. I can't help but wonder, is Hahn this incompetent/stupid ? or is he trying to lose as many games as possible  with the hope of getting a high draft choice?

 

It took/is taking years to remove the influence of KW on the roster.  The fact that he is still there bothers me though I know he isn't going anywhere.  I still believe if Hahn were to be able to put his team together without anyone else's influence I believe he would put together a really good team.  I have no proof of this, just an inkling.

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12 hours ago, VAfan said:

The Sox have been so bad that I've stopped paying attention to baseball, even though it was my favorite sport for a long time. 

 

I've definitely stopped caring about individual games (though I do get mad at specific ways we lose on a given night). We're a couple weeks into the season and it's apparent we're not playing for anything but a draft pick again. The Forbes report that the Sox were sixth most profitable team last year would indicate the Sox will just keep doing what they do. They don't care that I've given up or any other "diehard" is apathetic.

Edited by greg775

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38 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Bright side, ya ain't making that profit being bad for a decade in Portland. 

God I can't wait for Reinsdorf to go away

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4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

So much for the excuse of not being able to afford things.

How much you are worth and how much you money you have to spend are 2 different things...

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7 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

How much you are worth and how much you money you have to spend are 2 different things...

They had at least (because let's not be naive and assume they aren't under reporting revenue) 76 million dollars to spend. Spending would have driven revenue up significantly.

Edited by mqr

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3 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it.  For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects.  And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games?  Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball.  Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321.  Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings.  Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure?   Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats.  Dylan Cease was great in his first start.  Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games.  Hansen looks to be on the road back.  Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??   

When the rebuild started, the fans expected a good team in 2020 and that is not gonna happen. We gave this team the benefit of the doubt until they kicked us in the nuts this offseason. We see that they are the same fools as before, just with nice prospects. The Sox believe they need talent outside the org as they tried to acquire good talent. Can they bring in talent that puts us over the top without spending big money? Can they bring in an ace to anchor the rotation without trading our best prospects? Can they regain the fans trust? 

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12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

When the rebuild started, the fans expected a good team in 2020 and that is not gonna happen. We gave this team the benefit of the doubt until they kicked us in the nuts this offseason. We see that they are the same fools as before, just with nice prospects. The Sox believe they need talent outside the org as they tried to acquire good talent. Can they bring in talent that puts us over the top without spending big money? Can they bring in an ace to anchor the rotation without trading our best prospects? Can they regain the fans trust? 

The first two home games proved how badly our fans want a winner. Now we can only hope they draw flies the rest of the season. The Sox aren't moving so we don't have to worry about that, not after that Forbes report shows how much $$ they are worth. So might as well have crowds of 15,000 the rest of the year except for a couple Fridays and Saturdays in case any of you go to games you can spread out and not have to wait for beer.

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