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JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Future White Sox Lineup #GetExcited

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49 minutes ago, mqr said:

No. But if Omar Narvaez is your best catcher, you should be looking for a new catcher. 

Narvaez is currently better than both of the Sox catchers and the jury is out on Collins.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.

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4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The future lineup for the White Sox is coming together right before our eyes.

 

1. Madrigal - age 22.1 (120 wRC+ in A+)

2. Moncada - age 23.9 (155 wRC+ in MLB)

3. Martinez - age 31.7 (170 wRC+ in MLB, everyone here knows I love me some JDM)

4. Jimenez - age 22.4 (104 wRC+ in MLB)

5. Robert - age 21.7 (303 wRC+ in A+)

6. Vaughn - age 21.0 (1.24 OPS in college)

7. Collins - age 24.2 (148 wRC+ in AAA)

8. Anderson - age 25.8 (204 wRC+ in MLB)

9. Cordell - age 27.1 (367 wRC+ in MLB, 133 wRC+ in AAA)

 

#GetExcited

 

Replace Cordell with Basabe (or LuGo / Adolfo) and that could work.  Collins is still a big question mark at catcher and wouldn’t be surprised if they added both Martinez & Grandal next offseason.

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3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Replace Cordell with Basabe (or LuGo / Adolfo) and that could work.  Collins is still a big question mark at catcher and wouldn’t be surprised if they added both Martinez & Grandal next offseason.

Agreed.  Maybe Cordell will be a nice fourth outfielder.  I can definitely see Grandal but I don’t see the Sox flipping the bill for Martinez to DH.  I think Grandal is the Sox catcher and they move Collins to 1B/DH.

Edited by Harper2Sox

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4 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

Narvaez is currently better than both of the Sox catchers and the jury is out on Collins.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.

He can sure hit. Not much of a catcher, but then neither is Castillo. The Sox still don't have a long-term catcher in their system and they seem to be very bad at evaluating them, but maybe they'll luck into a good one.

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1 hour ago, Harper2Sox said:

Where are Tatis Jr. and Narvaez?  Doh.

Come on man, let’s not panic over Narvaez, his offensive numbers are incredibly lucky / flukey based on the Statcast info.

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45 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I could be missing someone in the list but so far this season he's ~3rd in MLB in WARP (the Baseball Prospectus one, which puts the highest weight on framing statistics and was the one people argued showed him as a negative catcher last year).

Lol...it’s been like 16 games (talk about a SSS) and his WARP is being driven by some good luck with the bat.  Glad you’re finally using the right metric to evaluate catchers, but let’s see where he’s at by season’s end.  I’d wager a lot of money he’s not in the top 15 in WARP for catchers even after this big start.

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27 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

Narvaez is currently better than both of the Sox catchers and the jury is out on Collins.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Barely, to the point of almost being negligible. 

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25 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

Agreed.  Maybe Cordell will be a nice fourth outfielder.  I can definitely see Grandal but I don’t see the Sox flipping the bill for Martinez to DH.  I think Grandal is the Sox catcher and they move Collins to 1B/DH.

I agree with this idea. Grandal catcher, Collins FB, and that still allows Eloy to RF/DH some. Vaughn seems like a weird pick though if this is the potential future set up here. 

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28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Replace Cordell with Basabe (or LuGo / Adolfo) and that could work.  Collins is still a big question mark at catcher and wouldn’t be surprised if they added both Martinez & Grandal next offseason.

I didn’t put a whole lot of thought into the #9 hitter. Just picked someone with reasonable potential that’s already within the organization to hold down RF on a regular basis and is already at the big league level. 

And sure they could always improve other positions externally, if needed. I just wanted to portray how incredible this lineup could be as early as next year with one external addition, a guy that certainly fits within the organization’s operating budget and past practices.

 

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1 hour ago, fathom said:

Permanent marker please

Yes, please.  His glove will only lower his value and potentially get him injured.  I’m fine with him being DH or maybe learning 1B as a career goal.

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Here is my "realistic" 2020 lineup

CF - Robert
3B - Moncada#
1B - Jimenez
C - Grandal#
SS - Anderson
DH - Collins*
2B - Madrigal
RF - Basabe#
LF - Gonzalez*
 

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14 minutes ago, beautox said:

Here is my "realistic" 2020 lineup

CF - Robert
3B - Moncada#
1B - Jimenez
C - Grandal#
SS - Anderson
DH - Collins*
2B - Madrigal
RF - Basabe#
LF - Gonzalez*
 

Switch Collins and Eloy. 

I remember being ripped a new asshole for saying Eloy was a joke in the OF last year. Where y'all at now? 

 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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5 hours ago, beautox said:

Here is my "realistic" 2020 lineup

CF - Robert
3B - Moncada#
1B - Jimenez
C - Grandal#
SS - Anderson
DH - Collins*
2B - Madrigal
RF - Basabe#
LF - Gonzalez*
 

Here’s the thing that’s most exciting. It doesn’t take a whole lot of external help (maybe 1 and at most 2 offseason additions) for the lineup to begin looking really formidable as early as next year. Heck, even with the dead weight they’re carrying this year, they already have the best offense in the division. Their team wRC+ of 112 currently ranks 9th in MLB and this is with guys like Engel, Palka, and Sanchez receiving a significant number of ABs.

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I’m not writing off Eloy being a LF just yet (although he has looked bad out there), but if there is any concern at all that he’s a future DH in the near-term then it makes adding someone like JD Martinez a bit of a challenge.  Instead, here’s what I think our future lineup could look like:

                 2020 (OD)         2020 (A-S)          2021 (OD) 

  • 1B:  Alonso              Alonso               Vaughn
  • 2B:  Sanchez           Madrigal            Madrigal
  • SS:  Anderson        Anderson           Anderson
  • 3B:  Moncada         Moncada           Moncada
  • LF:   Jimenez           Luis B/G              Luis B/G
  • CF:  L. Garcia          Robert                Robert
  • RF:  M. Ozuna        M. Ozuna           M. Ozuna
  • DH: Cheap Vet       Jimenez              Jimenez
  • CA:  Collins             Collins                Collins

Outside of catcher, that 2021 team would be excellent defensively and every single member of the lineup could hit 20+ HRs with the exception of Madrigal.  And with Ozuna being the only major addition to the lineup, that leaves plenty of money to address the pitching staff.  Alternatively, if Collins doesn’t show he can be passable at catcher this year, then we should be all over Grandal as well.

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not writing off Eloy being a LF just yet (although he has looked bad out there), but if there is any concern at all that he’s a future DH in the near-term then it makes adding someone like JD Martinez a bit of a challenge.  Instead, here’s what I think our future lineup could look like:

                 2020 (OD)         2020 (A-S)          2021 (OD) 

  • 1B:  Alonso              Alonso               Vaughn
  • 2B:  Sanchez           Madrigal            Madrigal
  • SS:  Anderson        Anderson           Anderson
  • 3B:  Moncada         Moncada           Moncada
  • LF:   Jimenez           Luis B/G              Luis B/G
  • CF:  L. Garcia          Robert                Robert
  • RF:  M. Ozuna        M. Ozuna           M. Ozuna
  • DH: Cheap Vet       Jimenez              Jimenez
  • CA:  Collins             Collins                Collins

Outside of catcher, that 2021 team would be excellent defensively and every single member of the lineup could hit 20+ HRs with the exception of Madrigal.  And with Ozuna being the only major addition to the lineup, that leaves plenty of money to address the pitching staff.  Alternatively, if Collins doesn’t show he can be passable at catcher this year, then we should be all over Grandal as well.

And that’s the beauty of having so much of the young core already in place. Provides tremendous flexibility for mixing and matching to plug and play FA secondary pieces to fill holes.

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13 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And that’s the beauty of having so much of the young core already in place. Provides tremendous flexibility for mixing and matching to plug and play FA secondary pieces to fill holes.

I think there’s hope for the lineup, but you’re getting a little carried away by saying so much of the core is in place.  We hopefully have three important pieces in place.  Robert & Madrigal are likely to be major leaguers, but are still just in High A.  Collins bat is responding well to the juiced ball in AAA and a better hitting environment, but still has a ton of question marks defensively.  Hell, my lineup is assuming we land Vaughn with the #3 pick.  Still plenty of unknowns / question marks with most of these guys.  Moncada & Anderson taking big steps forward is huge for the rebuild, but we’ve still got a ways to go.

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I honestly see Collins as a john(jason?)jaho type. Not that is a bad thing

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Can someone provide me with an update on Zack Burdi? The last story I found on him is that he was in the minor league spring training camp but there is nothing further on him and he hasn’t appeared in any MILB games to my knowledge.

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23 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Replace Cordell with Basabe (or LuGo / Adolfo) and that could work.  Collins is still a big question mark at catcher and wouldn’t be surprised if they added both Martinez & Grandal next offseason.

I completely agree 

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not writing off Eloy being a LF just yet (although he has looked bad out there), but if there is any concern at all that he’s a future DH in the near-term then it makes adding someone like JD Martinez a bit of a challenge.  Instead, here’s what I think our future lineup could look like:

                 2020 (OD)         2020 (A-S)          2021 (OD) 

  • 1B:  Alonso              Alonso               Vaughn
  • 2B:  Sanchez           Madrigal            Madrigal
  • SS:  Anderson        Anderson           Anderson
  • 3B:  Moncada         Moncada           Moncada
  • LF:   Jimenez           Luis B/G              Luis B/G
  • CF:  L. Garcia          Robert                Robert
  • RF:  M. Ozuna        M. Ozuna           M. Ozuna
  • DH: Cheap Vet       Jimenez              Jimenez
  • CA:  Collins             Collins                Collins

Outside of catcher, that 2021 team would be excellent defensively and every single member of the lineup could hit 20+ HRs with the exception of Madrigal.  And with Ozuna being the only major addition to the lineup, that leaves plenty of money to address the pitching staff.  Alternatively, if Collins doesn’t show he can be passable at catcher this year, then we should be all over Grandal as well.

2020 (OD)         2020 (A-S)          2021 (OD) 

  • 1B:  Collins              Collins               Collins
  • 2B:  Madrigal           Madrigal            Madrigal
  • SS:  Anderson        Anderson           Anderson
  • 3B:  Moncada         Moncada           Moncada
  • LF:   Luis G              Luis G                 Luis G
  • CF:  Robert             Robert                Robert
  • RF:  Luis B               Luis B                 Luis B
  • DH: Jimenez           Jimenez              Jimenez
  • CA:  Grandal          Grandal              Rutschman

    I think we see Robert, Madrigal & Collins all graduate this year at some point. I think both Luis' make their way to AAA as well. I also think prospect fatigue will be real with Rutschman ala Rodon and the sox pick him at 3. The Os will go underslot for Witt and KC going for Lodolo or Thompson. Lastly this will be the final sell off this trade deadline I hope the sox focus on super low minors to supplement the pipeline.
     

    Alex Colome for OF Drew Waters# & LHP Kyle Muller from the braves

    Ivan Nova for OF Julio Rodriguez & LHP Brayan Perez from the mariners

    Kelvin Herrera for 3B Malcom Nunez & C Ivan Herrera from the cardinals

    Yonder Alonso for OF Jeremy De La Rosa from the nationals

    Jose Abreu for SS Livan Soto from the angels

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On 4/19/2019 at 12:05 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol...it’s been like 16 games (talk about a SSS) and his WARP is being driven by some good luck with the bat.  Glad you’re finally using the right metric to evaluate catchers, but let’s see where he’s at by season’s end.  I’d wager a lot of money he’s not in the top 15 in WARP for catchers even after this big start.

Fangraphs made updates this offseason to include framing in WAR FWIW.

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