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poppysox

OVERVIEW FOR 2020

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I think the 2020 season is looking very promising.  By my count we have 18 players who will probably make the 25 man roster.  For the remaining 7 slots we have 19 players with the ready or near ready to help label.  I also identified 7 other interesting players more likely used as trade chips.  An argument can be made that in house we have the makings of a very competitive team without help from trades or free agents.  Of course we all have players we like more or less than someone else but I think we have a lode of quality players currently under control.  Without adding anyone via trade or free agency I am confident we compete for the Central at minimum. Obviously, anyone from any group can be used to strength the whole.   I apologize in advance if I've omitted someone you happen to like.

 

PROBABLE TO MAKE 25 MAN ROSTER: 

Starting Rotation includes Giolito, Lopez, Kopech & Cease (4)                                     Bullpen pitchers include Bummer, Colome, Burr, Herrera & Marshall (5)

 Infielders include Abreu, Anderson, Moncada, Sanchez (4)                                         Outfielders include Jimenez,Tilson and Garcia (3)

 Catchers include McCann and Collins (2)

 

POSSIBILITIES IF DEEMED READY:

Starting Rotation include Hanson, Banuelos, Covey, Lambert & Clarkin (5)                Bullpen  possibilities include Hamilton, Fry, Burdi, Ruiz, Osich & Minaya (6)

Infielders include Madrigal, Burger and Rodon (3)                                                           Outfielders include Basabe, Cordell, Robert, Engel & Rutherford (5)

 

OTHERS OF NOTE:

Rodon, Palka, Zivala, Dunning, Adolfo, Delmonico, Walker (7)

                                                     

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59 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I think the 2020 season is looking very promising.  By my count we have 18 players who will probably make the 25 man roster.  For the remaining 7 slots we have 19 players with the ready or near ready to help label.  I also identified 7 other interesting players more likely used as trade chips.  An argument can be made that in house we have the makings of a very competitive team without help from trades or free agents.  Of course we all have players we like more or less than someone else but I think we have a lode of quality players currently under control.  Without adding anyone via trade or free agency I am confident we compete for the Central at minimum. Obviously, anyone from any group can be used to strength the whole.   I apologize in advance if I've omitted someone you happen to like.

 

PROBABLE TO MAKE 25 MAN ROSTER: 

Starting Rotation includes Giolito, Lopez, Kopech & Cease (4)                                     Bullpen pitchers include Bummer, Colome, Burr, Herrera & Marshall (5)

 Infielders include Abreu, Anderson, Moncada, Sanchez (4)                                         Outfielders include Jimenez,Tilson and Garcia (3)

 Catchers include McCann and Collins (2)

 

POSSIBILITIES IF DEEMED READY:

Starting Rotation include Hanson, Banuelos, Covey, Lambert & Clarkin (5)                Bullpen  possibilities include Hamilton, Fry, Burdi, Ruiz, Osich & Minaya (6)

Infielders include Madrigal, Burger and Rodon (3)                                                           Outfielders include Basabe, Cordell, Robert, Engel & Rutherford (5)

 

OTHERS OF NOTE:

Rodon, Palka, Zivala, Dunning, Adolfo, Delmonico, Walker (7)

                                                     

I actually feel the exact opposite of this. There is no way in hell that this rebuild will succeed without significant help from outside the organization. 

This team needs to add a TOR arm, catcher, second baseman, Right Fielder, DH, and a couple more bullpen arms if it wants to compete next year. 

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49 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

MI actually feel the exact opposite of this. There is no way in hell that this rebuild will succeed without significant help from outside the organization. 

This team needs to add a TOR arm, catcher, second baseman, Right Fielder, DH, and a couple more bullpen arms if it wants to compete next year. 

We already have 3 guys with TOR stuff.  We already have a top catcher and Collins looks like his time is now.  Madrigal is your 2 nd baseman but might need to go outside if more time is needed.  Right field is covered if Robert makes the club.  Most question I have would be Madrigal & Robert but I'm in the group who move them faster.  I'm not at all against trades or free agency.  Just trying to show where are floor is.

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I think it is very realistic to pencil in Robert starting May 1st in center field. The biggest question is do they retain Abreu or look to FA for a first baseman or does eloy or Collins fill that roll? If they can somehow dump Alonso and let Abreu walk they could really look into Martinez who would be a perfect fit at DH and really strengthen the lineup. 

Robert

Moncada

Martinez

Jimenez

McCann

Collins

Anderson

FA RF

FA vet 2nd baseman until Madrigal hopefully figures it out. 

 

That lineup can can compete but team still requires a TOR and a lotta luck

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12 hours ago, poppysox said:

I think the 2020 season is looking very promising.  By my count we have 18 players who will probably make the 25 man roster.  For the remaining 7 slots we have 19 players with the ready or near ready to help label.  I also identified 7 other interesting players more likely used as trade chips.  An argument can be made that in house we have the makings of a very competitive team without help from trades or free agents.  Of course we all have players we like more or less than someone else but I think we have a lode of quality players currently under control.  Without adding anyone via trade or free agency I am confident we compete for the Central at minimum. Obviously, anyone from any group can be used to strength the whole.   I apologize in advance if I've omitted someone you happen to like.

 

PROBABLE TO MAKE 25 MAN ROSTER: 

Starting Rotation includes Giolito, Lopez, Kopech & Cease (4)                                     Bullpen pitchers include Bummer, Colome, Burr, Herrera & Marshall (5)

 Infielders include Abreu, Anderson, Moncada, Sanchez (4)                                         Outfielders include Jimenez,Tilson and Garcia (3)

 Catchers include McCann and Collins (2)

 

POSSIBILITIES IF DEEMED READY:

Starting Rotation include Hanson, Banuelos, Covey, Lambert & Clarkin (5)                Bullpen  possibilities include Hamilton, Fry, Burdi, Ruiz, Osich & Minaya (6)

Infielders include Madrigal, Burger and Rodon (3)                                                           Outfielders include Basabe, Cordell, Robert, Engel & Rutherford (5)

 

OTHERS OF NOTE:

Rodon, Palka, Zivala, Dunning, Adolfo, Delmonico, Walker (7)

                                                     

I don't expect the White Sox to sign any big free agents in the off season or make any trades to help the team. This team is being put together from their farm system. This rebuild is going to be done as cheaply as possible. I  just hope it works out. Somebody posted a few days ago that  Hahn should extend Moncada with a $200 million dollar extension. I'll believe that when I see it.

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I’m not nearly as optimistic as you, but I think there’s no excuse to not start looking to fill holes with actual good Major League Baseball players. 

They should be competitive next year. 

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Back up the brinks truck for Gerrit Cole.  I would like to see catcher, 2B and RF upgraded but this team is putting up enough offense to compete but they need a TOR arm badly.  Yes, we have a few young guys who can be that guy down the road, but would be nice to have that legit ace heading the rotation to take some of the pressure off the young guys.  

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3 hours ago, tkling36 said:

Back up the brinks truck for Gerrit Cole.  I would like to see catcher, 2B and RF upgraded but this team is putting up enough offense to compete but they need a TOR arm badly.  Yes, we have a few young guys who can be that guy down the road, but would be nice to have that legit ace heading the rotation to take some of the pressure off the young guys.  

Don't think that will be happening. It will probably be more dumpster diving.

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The lineup puzzle seems easy to put together but the rotation is hard. I'm not so sure dumpster diving is a bad idea, just make sure you get more than you need.

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5 hours ago, WBWSF said:

This rebuild is going to be done as cheaply as possible.

I need to spit out my 12 dollar soft drink. Only in baseball can a rebuild be done as cheaply as possible when the owner is swimming in cash. Ah the non sequitirs of life (sell it, Jerry, you can get 1 billion for it; sell to somebody).

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46 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Don't think that will be happening. It will probably be more dumpster diving.

You're probably right, but I can still be hopelessly optimistic for now.

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11 hours ago, tkling36 said:

Back up the brinks truck for Gerrit Cole.  I would like to see catcher, 2B and RF upgraded but this team is putting up enough offense to compete but they need a TOR arm badly.  Yes, we have a few young guys who can be that guy down the road, but would be nice to have that legit ace heading the rotation to take some of the pressure off the young guys.  

You don't think McCann & Collins takes care of catcher?  You can even have Zivala for 3rd catcher/DH.  The 2nd base and RF question revolves around Madrigal & Robert.  Cordell and Sanchez work for me as placeholders for a while.  One year deals on the right type guys could work but nothing that would block Madrigal & Robert.

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I think our development plan actually may have two different phases now

Phase 1- 2020-2021 Gio/Lopez/Cease/Kopech/FA

current bullpen

re-sign Abreu for 2 years 28 million for DH only 

acquire veteran 2b

mccann/Collins at C

Move Eloy to 1b / DH

FA / Robert / FA in outfield

another FA at 1b / DH

I’m pretty optimistic about next year. We are already injury snakebitten this year and still performing above where I think most people’s expectations were, including mine. 

Lopez and Giolito seem to be rounding into middle of the rotation starters, and I’m hopeful Cease and Kopech will be in the mix and hopefully somewhat dependable as well. By no means do I think all prospects work out, but based on what we have seen so far, and where these players are at, 2020 needs to be and will all be about evaluating these four players in our rotation all year. 2021 too.  We definitely need another very solid #2-3 veteran FA starter and should spend to acquire one. It conceivable that we will have five #2-3 starters and that might be enough. 

2nd base is what we need to go out and get. Madrigal’s continued power outage is really worrisome. No idea what it means yet, but he’s probably not going to be ML ready without a lot more seasoning, at least a  year. 

We load up the lineup with hitting vets and spend two years figuring out which of these four starters (five in 2021 with Dunning) are actually ones we move forward with for phase 2 

 

phase 2:

collins / zavala C / dh?

eloy 1b / dh

Hopefully Madrigal at 2b

Anderson / moncada

Robert / whatever outfielders emerge from the system

and with pitching we pay for 2 great starters and a new back end bullpen. 

 

In the first phase we load up with hitting to develop our pitchers 

in the second phase we compliment our proven pitching with other proven vets

 

Edited by Greg Hibbard

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9 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I think our development plan actually may have two different phases now

Phase 1- 2020-2021 Gio/Lopez/Cease/Kopech/FA

current bullpen

re-sign Abreu for 2 years 28 million for DH only 

acquire veteran 2b

mccann/Collins at C

Move Eloy to 1b / DH

FA / Robert / FA in outfield

another FA at 1b / DH

I’m pretty optimistic about next year. We are already injury snakebitten this year and still performing above where I think most people’s expectations were, including mine. 

Lopez and Giolito seem to be rounding into middle of the rotation starters, and I’m hopeful Cease and Kopech will be in the mix and hopefully somewhat dependable as well. By no means do I think all prospects work out, but based on what we have seen so far, and where these players are at, 2020 needs to be and will all be about evaluating these four players in our rotation all year. 2021 too.  We definitely need another very solid #2-3 veteran FA starter and should spend to acquire one. It conceivable that we will have five #2-3 starters and that might be enough. 

2nd base is what we need to go out and get. Madrigal’s continued power outage is really worrisome. No idea what it means yet, but he’s probably not going to be ML ready without a lot more seasoning, at least a  year. 

We load up the lineup with hitting vets and spend two years figuring out which of these four starters (five in 2021 with Dunning) are actually ones we move forward with for phase 2 

 

phase 2:

collins / zavala C / dh?

eloy 1b / dh

Hopefully Madrigal at 2b

Anderson / moncada

Robert / whatever outfielders emerge from the system

and with pitching we pay for 2 great starters and a new back end bullpen. 

 

In the first phase we load up with hitting to develop our pitchers 

in the second phase we compliment our proven pitching with other proven vets

 

So in this plan the sox are signing 5 veteran FA in the offseason? This seems way too similar to the offseason where the Sox signed Melky/LaRoche/Robertson. We all know how that turned out.

The Sox should either pony up for elite talent like Cole, JD Martinez, and Rendon or not sign anyone at all and continue to tank for another 2-3 years while the young kids develop.

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So much uncertainty would be made clear once we know the FO plan for Robert & Madrigal.  If they are ready... the other needs fall in place pretty well.  Mainly, a quality starter and a couple bullpen pieces.

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If you want Kopech to ease back in, how long would he need to stay down to regain a year of control?  For instance he is very wild in spring and don't want to force him back  

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9 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

If you want Kopech to ease back in, how long would he need to stay down to regain a year of control?  For instance he is very wild in spring and don't want to force him back  

If I read this right he accrued about 41 days of service time last year. If the rules don't change, he'd need to be optioned to the minors and stay there for >50 days, give or take, for it to have an affect on when he hits free agency. So early June, give or take?

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On 5/14/2019 at 7:47 AM, EloyJenkins said:

I think it is very realistic to pencil in Robert starting May 1st in center field. The biggest question is do they retain Abreu or look to FA for a first baseman or does eloy or Collins fill that roll? If they can somehow dump Alonso and let Abreu walk they could really look into Martinez who would be a perfect fit at DH and really strengthen the lineup. 

Robert

Moncada

Martinez

Jimenez

McCann

Collins

Anderson

FA RF

FA vet 2nd baseman until Madrigal hopefully figures it out. 

 

That lineup can can compete but team still requires a TOR and a lotta luck

Giolito, Kopech and Cease all have TOR potential.  Lopez has #2-3 potential IMO.  An already establish TOR pitcher and another Lopez type would make us dangerous.  The club would be very close to competing for all the marbles.  Robert and Madrigal are key to speeding up the process.

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14 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

The Sox should either pony up for elite talent like Cole, JD Martinez, and Rendon or not sign anyone at all and continue to tank for another 2-3 years while the young kids develop.

The risk there is that if they tank for another 2-3 years there may not be any fan base left, to say nothing of advertising / merchandising losses and their TV deal. 

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I remain fully in the Cole + Castellanos or Ozuna + Grandal train.  Resign Abreu.  

Cole - 6 years $160M

Castellanos  - 4 years, $55M

or

Ozuna - 4 years, $65M

Grandal - 3 years, $45M

Abreu - 2 years, $24M

Alex Wood - 2 years, $22M

 

OD 2020:

CF: Leury, 3B: Moncada, LF: Eloy, 1B: Abreu, RF: Castellanos/Ozuna, Catcher: Grandal, SS: Anderson, DH: Collins, 2B: Yolmer.

BN: McCann, Tilson, Rondon

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Cease, Lopez and Wood (Kopech starts in AAA)

Bullpen:  Colome, Herrera, Fry, Burr, Hamilton, Frare, pick 2 of (Burdi, Ruiz, Vieira, Fulmer, Marshall - Fulmer and Vieira will be out of options)

 

Mid-June 2020:

CF: Robert, 3B: Moncada, LF: Eloy, 1B: Abreu, RF: Castellanos/Ozuna, Catcher: Grandal, SS: Anderson, DH: Collins, 2B: Madrigal.

BN: McCann, Leury, Yolmer

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Cease, Lopez and Wood (insert Kopech for 1st injury)

Bullpen:  Same as above.

 

Sox spent just over $300M.....what they would have given MM, on 5 players.  Is it a pipedream?  For sure.  But that would be my "Plan A" for right now.   

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19 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

The Sox should either pony up for elite talent like Cole, JD Martinez, and Rendon or not sign anyone at all and continue to tank for another 2-3 years while the young kids develop.

In 2-3 years the 'young kids' will be almost through their team control......so not an option.

You'd have amazing job security if you could sell your owner on that though. 

Edited by mqr

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