RIP Barry Latman, 1959 Pitcher

[flavum]

https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/barry-latman-member-of-1959-al-champion-white-sox-dies-at-82-6ce85d48d48c

Only seven members of the 1959 team are alive- Luis Aparicio and Ken McBride played in the Series. April players- Lou Skizas and Claude Raymond. September callups- Gary Peters, JC Martin, and Joe Hicks.

[TBrown54]

Thanks for that.  I had never heard of him.  Glancing at Baseball Reference, it looks like he pitched well for them in '59, went 13-5 with Cleveland in '61, and lasted a decade in majors.  Would have turned 83 tomorrow.    

[Lip Man 1]

Guy threw hard. Unfortunately another one of the stacked minor league system that the Sox traded away before the 1960 season in an effort to repeat after the Yankees stole Roger Maris from Kansas City.

[TBrown54]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Guy threw hard. Unfortunately another one of the stacked minor league system that the Sox traded away before the 1960 season in an effort to repeat after the Yankees stole Roger Maris from Kansas City.

Sox developed Norm Cash, right?  And names that come to mind in 1959-60 off-season are Johnny Callison and Earl Battey?  Anyone else?   

[WBWSF]

51 minutes ago, TBrown54 said:

Sox developed Norm Cash, right?  And names that come to mind in 1959-60 off-season are Johnny Callison and Earl Battey?  Anyone else?   

John Romano, and Don Mincher. The Latman trade was another dumb trade by Bill Veeck. He traded Latman for  Herb Score. Score was never able to get anybody out. Scores best days were behind him.

[MnSoxFan]

Then there is the Denny McLain situation where we protected Bruce Howard and Dave DeBusschere (who if had not went to NBA would have maybe been a top notch pitcher). Detroit grabbed McLain out of our system. 

 

Had nothing to do with post world series, but happened in early 60s

[Lip Man 1]

20 minutes ago, MnSoxFan said:

Then there is the Denny McLain situation where we protected Bruce Howard and Dave DeBusschere (who if had not went to NBA would have maybe been a top notch pitcher). Detroit grabbed McLain out of our system. 

 

Had nothing to do with post world series, but happened in early 60s

DeBusschere wasn't part of that situation.

April 8, 1963 – On this date, one of the biggest ‘what if’s’ in franchise history took place. As per the rules at the time, the White Sox had to choose between two pitchers signed to ‘bonus baby’ contracts. The rules stated that only one player signed to a deal for over a certain amount of money could remain in the organization. The other would have to be waived.

With that in mind rookies Bruce Howard and Denny McLain squared off in an intra-squad game to see who would be released and who got promoted to Double A Lynchburg. Howard won 2-1. McLain got his walking papers and was claimed by Detroit the following week. He’d go on to win 131 big league games including 31 in 1968. 

And here is from my interview with Sox announcer Milo Hamilton:

ML: One of the oddities about that season took place in spring training on April 8 when two youngsters, Bruce Howard and Denny McLain had a ‘pitch-off’ to determine who would stay in the organization and get promoted to Double-A. Do you remember anything about that game or about McLain in general when he was with the White Sox. (Author’s Note: Howard would win the game 2-1 and get promoted to Lynchburg, Virginia. Because of baseball rules at the time concerning bonus babies, McLain had to be released. He was claimed by the Tigers a week later.) 

MH: “Well the pitch-off was only part of the reason the Sox let him go. He was a cocky kid. His high school used to get tickets to Sox games and I can still remember him sitting by the dugout yelling “I can beat those guys.” He was hard to handle and his attitude was something that Al Lopez (Author’s Note: White Sox manager) and the organization just wasn’t going to put up with. In spring training he ran up a 700 hundred dollar phone bill talking to his girlfriend and he refused to pay it.”  

“Howard was a clean cut kid. Never gave anyone any trouble. Unfortunately he didn’t turn out to be much of a pitcher and in that respect you have to give McLain his due, he turned into a great pitcher. I mean he won 30 games one season.”  

[Buehrle>Wood]

Gary Peters name stuck out to me considering he won the 1963 rookie of the year award. Quite the large gap in years.

[bubba phillips]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

John Romano, and Don Mincher. The Latman trade was another dumb trade by Bill Veeck. He traded Latman for  Herb Score. Score was never able to get anybody out. Scores best days were behind him.

If I remember correctly, Score (then with Cleveland) was an excellent pitcher.  One day he was hit in the head by a batted ball off the bat of Gil McDougald of the Yankees.  Scared the crap out of him and he was never the same after that.

[TBrown54]

9 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DeBusschere wasn't part of that situation.

April 8, 1963 – On this date, one of the biggest ‘what if’s’ in franchise history took place. As per the rules at the time, the White Sox had to choose between two pitchers signed to ‘bonus baby’ contracts. The rules stated that only one player signed to a deal for over a certain amount of money could remain in the organization. The other would have to be waived.

With that in mind rookies Bruce Howard and Denny McLain squared off in an intra-squad game to see who would be released and who got promoted to Double A Lynchburg. Howard won 2-1. McLain got his walking papers and was claimed by Detroit the following week. He’d go on to win 131 big league games including 31 in 1968. 

And here is from my interview with Sox announcer Milo Hamilton:

ML: One of the oddities about that season took place in spring training on April 8 when two youngsters, Bruce Howard and Denny McLain had a ‘pitch-off’ to determine who would stay in the organization and get promoted to Double-A. Do you remember anything about that game or about McLain in general when he was with the White Sox. (Author’s Note: Howard would win the game 2-1 and get promoted to Lynchburg, Virginia. Because of baseball rules at the time concerning bonus babies, McLain had to be released. He was claimed by the Tigers a week later.) 

MH: “Well the pitch-off was only part of the reason the Sox let him go. He was a cocky kid. His high school used to get tickets to Sox games and I can still remember him sitting by the dugout yelling “I can beat those guys.” He was hard to handle and his attitude was something that Al Lopez (Author’s Note: White Sox manager) and the organization just wasn’t going to put up with. In spring training he ran up a 700 hundred dollar phone bill talking to his girlfriend and he refused to pay it.”  

“Howard was a clean cut kid. Never gave anyone any trouble. Unfortunately he didn’t turn out to be much of a pitcher and in that respect you have to give McLain his due, he turned into a great pitcher. I mean he won 30 games one season.”  

That year was 1968, and the World Series with McLain's Tigers defeating Cardinals and Gibson in seven games was an absolute classic.  I had thought Bob Gibson was invincible, but it was the Tigers with Mickey Lolich (3 Ws) who prevailed.  For White Sox, it was one of the bleakest seasons in franchise history. 

[bubba phillips]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

John Romano, and Don Mincher. The Latman trade was another dumb trade by Bill Veeck. He traded Latman for  Herb Score. Score was never able to get anybody out. Scores best days were behind him.

Veeck's idiotic trades probably cost the Sox a pennant or two in the early '60's.

Edited May 20, 2019 by bubba phillips

[Lip Man 1]

36 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

Veeck's idiotic trades probably cost the Sox a pennant or two in the early '60's.

To be fair to Bill he honestly felt that without more power the Sox would not be able to repeat. He originally targeted young sluggers like Orlando Cepeda and Bill White. When San Francisco and St. Louis wouldn't trade with him he fell back on acquiring players like "Minnie" Minoso, Roy Sievers and Gene Freese.

Ironically those guys all had terrific seasons for the Sox, what hurt them was the established guys like Aparicio, Fox, Landis, Wynn and Lollar who had off years compared to the previous seasons.

And even with the regression they still won 87 games and were 20 over .500.

But yes, having any combination of Cash, Romano, Callison (who the Sox tried to reacquire before the 1962 season), Mincher or Battey and the Sox probably win pennants in 1964 and 1967.

 

[TBrown54]

1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Gary Peters name stuck out to me considering he won the 1963 rookie of the year award. Quite the large gap in years.

He was at a game 2 years ago signing autographs or just making an appearance as an alumnus in 100 level concourse on third base side, if I recall.  He looked great for a guy his age, about 79.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Gary Peters name stuck out to me considering he won the 1963 rookie of the year award. Quite the large gap in years.

Gary appeared in a few games for the Sox in 1959, 1960 and 1961. He was in the minor leagues (along with Joel Horlen) for six years before getting his real chance. That was back when players actually learned how to play the game and weren't rushed up to the bigs after a year or so in the minor leagues. And Gary almost didn't even get his shot in 1963 but for an illness to Juan Pizarro as he told me when I interviewed him:

ML: You finally got your first major league win on May 6, 1963 when you beat the Kansas City A’s 5-1.Not only did you get the win but you hit your first career home run. What do you remember about that game?

GP: "I remember it was a few days before cut down day. In those days teams had until early May to keep some extra guys on the roster, then they had to keep them or let them go. I hadn’t been pitching much and thought the Sox were going to cut me. We were on the plane headed to Kansas City when Ray Berres walked back to where I was at. At first I thought he was coming to tell me the Sox decided to let me go, instead he tells me that Juan Pizarro who was supposed to pitch, had the flu and that I had the ball. I was happy to get the chance! I know I pitched pretty well and that Jim Brosnan finished it up for me. It was the first of 11 straight wins for me. Ewing Kauffman, who later owned the Kansas City Royals, told me that if the Sox did let me go, the A’s were going to pick me up." (Author’s Note: Most baseball fans know that Jim Bouton wrote "Ball Four" detailing his 1969 season with the Seattle Pilots but many fans don’t realize that Brosnan was actually the first baseball author. His book "The Long Season" detailed his time with the Cincinnati Reds in 1959. It was the first time a book had actually taken the average fan inside a baseball clubhouse and talked about what really happened in a game and a season. It’s a great read if you can find the book which is now out of print. He then followed it up with “Pennant Race” looking at the Reds 1961 National League championship year.)

"I also remember hitting the home run off of Ted Bowsfield. He hung a curve to me. I was serious about my hitting and always took batting practice whenever I could."

ML: It was a sign of things to come for you. You talk about making an impact! In 63’ you won the Rookie of the Year award with 19 wins, an outstanding ERA of 2.33 and with 189 strike outs. How did you get so much success so early?

GP: "It was because of the years that I spent in the minor leagues. I worked hard, played a lot of winter ball. It all came together when my mechanics were correct. It became ingrained in me so I didn’t have to think about it, I could just pitch. My ball was sinking; my slider was fast and had a hard break now."

 

[MnSoxFan]

5 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DeBusschere wasn't part of that situation.

April 8, 1963 – On this date, one of the biggest ‘what if’s’ in franchise history took place. As per the rules at the time, the White Sox had to choose between two pitchers signed to ‘bonus baby’ contracts. The rules stated that only one player signed to a deal for over a certain amount of money could remain in the organization. The other would have to be waived.

With that in mind rookies Bruce Howard and Denny McLain squared off in an intra-squad game to see who would be released and who got promoted to Double A Lynchburg. Howard won 2-1. McLain got his walking papers and was claimed by Detroit the following week. He’d go on to win 131 big league games including 31 in 1968. 

And here is from my interview with Sox announcer Milo Hamilton:

ML: One of the oddities about that season took place in spring training on April 8 when two youngsters, Bruce Howard and Denny McLain had a ‘pitch-off’ to determine who would stay in the organization and get promoted to Double-A. Do you remember anything about that game or about McLain in general when he was with the White Sox. (Author’s Note: Howard would win the game 2-1 and get promoted to Lynchburg, Virginia. Because of baseball rules at the time concerning bonus babies, McLain had to be released. He was claimed by the Tigers a week later.) 

MH: “Well the pitch-off was only part of the reason the Sox let him go. He was a cocky kid. His high school used to get tickets to Sox games and I can still remember him sitting by the dugout yelling “I can beat those guys.” He was hard to handle and his attitude was something that Al Lopez (Author’s Note: White Sox manager) and the organization just wasn’t going to put up with. In spring training he ran up a 700 hundred dollar phone bill talking to his girlfriend and he refused to pay it.”  

“Howard was a clean cut kid. Never gave anyone any trouble. Unfortunately he didn’t turn out to be much of a pitcher and in that respect you have to give McLain his due, he turned into a great pitcher. I mean he won 30 games one season.”  

Thanks. Thought I had read long ago that they had 3 young pitchers to protect and only had 2 slots.