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TBrown54

Minnie Minoso for Hall of Fame

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My guess is this is not a new topic, but Minoso was one of the early A.L. black (and Cuban) stars, had four 100+ RBI seasons, averaged 18 SBs and 90 RBIs per season, lifetime batting average:  .298.  His lifetime WAR of 50.5 maybe not great (I am new to WAR), but exceeds other HOFers (e.g. Larry Doby).  Also, Online Book of Baseball site puts him at #6 on the list of the 10 Best Hitters of the 1950s (all others on the list are HOF).  He must have been a dynamo on the 1950s GoGoSox.  Is this an unjust omission or is Minoso's career stats and contributions not HOF caliber?  

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       I used to call into sports radio shows every time some one would call to whine about ron santo not being in the hall. Both were great players

 with HOF numbers seasonally speaking. Their career numbers are a little less HOF like. Santo had Type 1 diabetes and flamed out early. Minoso 

 got a late start due to racism. He would be in the Hall if he hadn't missed 5 seasons due to the color ban. I hate to say this, but Reinsdorf really

 screwed up using his influence getting Bainesy in and not the much more deserving Minoso.

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3 hours ago, zisk said:

       I used to call into sports radio shows every time some one would call to whine about ron santo not being in the hall. Both were great players

 with HOF numbers seasonally speaking. Their career numbers are a little less HOF like. Santo had Type 1 diabetes and flamed out early. Minoso 

 got a late start due to racism. He would be in the Hall if he hadn't missed 5 seasons due to the color ban. I hate to say this, but Reinsdorf really

 screwed up using his influence getting Bainesy in and not the much more deserving Minoso.

The Chicago Baseball Museum (for which I write) has worked tirelessly to get "Minnie" and Billy Pierce in. Both are very deserving if you simply go by the numbers themselves. Now add in their popularity and how they represented the sport and it is a damn shame, if they do get in, it will be after they have passed away.

I don't know how much "influence" JR has anymore myself by the way regarding MLB issues. He's no longer on any committee's. If he did work to get Harold in I can understand it, he played for JR, JR knows him very well.

Here is the link to the story I did on Billy's credentials:

https://chicagobaseballmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/CBM-Golden-Era-Liptak-Pierce-20141121.pdf

And here is the one for "Minnie" Minoso:

https://chicagobaseballmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/CBM-HOF-Minnie-Minoso-20141205.pdf

 

 

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12 hours ago, zisk said:

       I used to call into sports radio shows every time some one would call to whine about ron santo not being in the hall. Both were great players

 with HOF numbers seasonally speaking. Their career numbers are a little less HOF like. Santo had Type 1 diabetes and flamed out early. Minoso 

 got a late start due to racism. He would be in the Hall if he hadn't missed 5 seasons due to the color ban. I hate to say this, but Reinsdorf really

 screwed up using his influence getting Bainesy in and not the much more deserving Minoso.

Santo career WAR of 71 playing in hitter friendly confines, 20 points better than Minoso's, whose 50 was 11 points higher than Baines. I randomly checked a dozen or so HOF WARs and Baines 39 was higher only than Bill Mazeroski's!  Even Lou Brock's was only in 40s.

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In his 11 full years he was top five MVP voting 5 times and all-star 8 times.  the last few years of his career dragged down his numbers a bit.

out of curiosity I wonder what taking out all of his caught stealing would do to his WAR.  Led the league 6 times! 

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I just reviewed his stats. He had 11 really good years (1951-61), then got took old and numbers went down. In 1949-50 he was with Cleveland's AAA team, and had very good years. They already had Larry Doby in Center. Can't help wondering if there was subtle pressure not to bring Minnie up and have two black guys in outfield. Anyway, Sox got him in early 1951, and Chicago fell in love with him. The rest is history, and he belongs in HOF.

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15 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The Chicago Baseball Museum (for which I write) has worked tirelessly to get "Minnie" and Billy Pierce in. Both are very deserving if you simply go by the numbers themselves. Now add in their popularity and how they represented the sport and it is a damn shame, if they do get in, it will be after they have passed away.

I don't know how much "influence" JR has anymore myself by the way regarding MLB issues. He's no longer on any committee's. If he did work to get Harold in I can understand it, he played for JR, JR knows him very well.

Here is the link to the story I did on Billy's credentials:

https://chicagobaseballmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/CBM-Golden-Era-Liptak-Pierce-20141121.pdf

And here is the one for "Minnie" Minoso:

https://chicagobaseballmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/CBM-HOF-Minnie-Minoso-20141205.pdf

 

 

Billy Pierce was absolutely my late father's favorite all time player so he holds a special place in my heart. 

Minnie Minoso was one of the greatest ambassadors for baseball and life that this city has ever seen.  He once came to the downtown office where my wife was working and he gave her a signed autograph that she gave to her lucky fiancé as I was at the time.  She said he was the nicest man. 

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"Minnie" had to deal with everything Jackie Robinson had to deal with including the fact that unlike Jackie, he spoke no English when he came to the states. Every Latin player of that generation growing up including Cepeda, Clemente and Tony Perez wanted to be like him. In fact Tony specifically talked about "Minnie" in his Hall of Fame induction speech.

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I always thought his low career home run totals (186) kept him out of the HOF.

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4 hours ago, wegner said:

Billy Pierce was absolutely my late father's favorite all time player so he holds a special place in my heart. 

Minnie Minoso was one of the greatest ambassadors for baseball and life that this city has ever seen.  He once came to the downtown office where my wife was working and he gave her a signed autograph that she gave to her lucky fiancé as I was at the time.  She said he was the nicest man. 

Billy Pierce is also my all time favorite White Sox player. I got a chance to meet him in 1999 at the ball park. He was intelligent, witty and a gentleman in every way. After our meeting I almost floated back to my seat. I never saw a left handed pitcher with such perfect mechanics, the way he would rock back and get every ounce of leg and arm motion that his small frame would allow, maximum effort with minimum strain. I doubt that the White Sox ever had a player more beloved than Minnie Minoso. I remember as a kid buying a pack of baseball cards at the drug store in my neighborhood. As I turned the corner and looked over my new cards I noticed that Minnie Minoso was in the bunch. "I got Minnie Minoso!" I yelled loud enough for the whole neighborhood to hear.

The way both players were treated by HOF voters was both a sham and a shame. Imagine pitchers like Harvey Haddix or Don Larsen getting more votes than Billy Pierce. Or Alvin Dark, Phil Cavaretta and Mickey Vernon out polling Minnie who was getting all of 1.8% of the vote in 1969.   What a joke baseball HOF voting can be at times.

If you are slavish in your devotion to WAR, SABER, Analytics and the whole new stats thing, as the vast majority of fans on sites like this seem to be then I would suggest taking a much closer look at more than just the raw numbers. Minnie accumulated his 50.5 WAR in just 6579 ABs. Billy Pierce was in the top ten for so many categories for many years. 5 times in the top 10 WAR for all players, 7 times for pitchers including twice at number 1. At or near the top in such stat geek loving categories as WPA and WPA/LI for many years. The lords of analytics were passing out WAR points stingily for 1950s players. If you love WAR you also need to look at how many years a player is in the top 5 or 10 percent of his peers. The stars of Billy and Minnie will shine much brighter if you do that. If Catfish Hunter is worthy of the HOF then dammit so is Billy. If Heinie Manush is enshrined then why not Minnie? I could give more examples but this is already too long.  

Edited by SI1020
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1 hour ago, SI1020 said:

Billy Pierce is also my all time favorite White Sox player. I got a chance to meet him in 1999 at the ball park. He was intelligent, witty and a gentleman in every way. After our meeting I almost floated back to my seat. I never saw a left handed pitcher with such perfect mechanics, the way he would rock back and get every ounce of leg and arm motion that his small frame would allow, maximum effort with minimum strain. I doubt that the White Sox ever had a player more beloved than Minnie Minoso. I remember as a kid buying a pack of baseball cards at the drug store in my neighborhood. As I turned the corner and looked over my new cards I noticed that Minnie Minoso was in the bunch. "I got Minnie Minoso!" I yelled loud enough for the whole neighborhood to hear.

The way both players were treated by HOF voters was both a sham and a shame. Imagine pitchers like Harvey Haddix or Don Larsen getting more votes than Billy Pierce. Or Alvin Dark, Phil Cavaretta and Mickey Vernon out polling Minnie who was getting all of 1.8% of the vote in 1969.   What a joke baseball HOF voting can be at times.

If you are slavish in your devotion to WAR, SABER, Analytics and the whole new stats thing, as the vast majority of fans on sites like this seem to be then I would suggest taking a much closer look at more than just the raw numbers. Minnie accumulated his 50.5 WAR in just 6579 ABs. Billy Pierce was in the top ten for so many categories for many years. 5 times in the top 10 WAR for all players, 7 times for pitchers including twice at number 1. At or near the top in such stat geek loving categories as WPA and WPA/LI for many years. The lords of analytics were passing out WAR points stingily for 1950s players. If you love WAR you also need to look at how many years a player is in the top 5 or 10 percent of his peers. The stars of Billy and Minnie will shine much brighter if you do that. If Catfish Hunter is worthy of the HOF then dammit so is Billy. If Heinie Manush is enshrined then why not Minnie? I could give more examples but this is already too long.  

Not long enough...that was awesome.  

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