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McCann Extension

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

McCann is clearly a very good defensive catcher and game caller. He does the work most people never see.

He's not though.  He is mediocre at best defensively.  There are actual metrics that prove this which are more reliable than a biased fans eye test.  He was non-tendered by DETROIT.  It's fun to think he's something more than he is, but he probably isn't.  Like the Mariners for 3 weeks.

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31 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sounds to me like he learned the same way a lot of players learn... from each other. 

Then he told the Soxs analytical and video guys he was interested and they supplied him with the necessary information required to better himself.

That's how most players get better - through a want-to.

The best baseball organizations are not waiting for players to ask for basic information, they are proactively creating plans to get better. Yes, some are more receptive. 

In this case, a player who was receptive was bad at it, but didn't know it or what it was, and the sox didn't care he didn't know about it or else would have made it a point of his plan.

Or as you call it, "player development".

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1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He's not though.  He is mediocre at best defensively.  There are actual metrics that prove this which are more reliable than a biased fans eye test.  He was non-tendered by DETROIT.  It's fun to think he's something more than he is, but he probably isn't.  Like the Mariners for 3 weeks.

Yes, sure, and most people who actually create these metrics and people who work in analytics and asses these metrics will tell you that the confidence level in regards to those stats are low and that catcher evaluation from an analytical standpoint is in its infancy stages.

Being a good received is 90% of catching defense and there is no efficient grade, beyond "framing" which has it's own problems, to judge a catchers talent. Hence why I said to ask pitchers. Giolito certainly disagrees with your analytical assessment and so do I and I'm, likely, much more analytically driven than you - it is likely a weakness of mine as I struggle to seperate stats from "intangibles" because I find them overrated and I cant put a value on them so I ignore them 99.9% of the time. Catching is not one of those times.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

The best baseball organizations are not waiting for players to ask for basic information, they are proactively creating plans to get better. Yes, some are more receptive. 

In this case, a player who was receptive was bad at it, but didn't know it or what it was, and the sox didn't care he didn't know about it or else would have made it a point of his plan.

Or as you call it, "player development".

The provided him with the information. They recorded the information. They gathered the information. That is the organizations job. 

In the modern game there is a thing called data overload. You dont want to overload players with immense amounts of data because not all players receive it well. Your job is to maintain and gather and the distribute based on need. 

The amount of information given to catchers already is immense - about 5 times that of a regular position player - and asking why they didnt supply him with everything he could possibly need represents a misunderstanding of overwhelming a player with analytics and data. Much of this stuff is new to an athlete. 

We'll agree to disagree here. I know you've convinced yourself that player outcomes are heavily influenced by player development departments but they're just not. They definitely matter - just not on the scale so many try to put it on here. 

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25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The provided him with the information. They recorded the information. They gathered the information. That is the organizations job. 

In the modern game there is a thing called data overload. You dont want to overload players with immense amounts of data because not all players receive it well. Your job is to maintain and gather and the distribute based on need. 

The amount of information given to catchers already is immense - about 5 times that of a regular position player - and asking why they didnt supply him with everything he could possibly need represents a misunderstanding of overwhelming a player with analytics and data. Much of this stuff is new to an athlete. 

We'll agree to disagree here. I know you've convinced yourself that player outcomes are heavily influenced by player development departments but they're just not. They definitely matter - just not on the scale so many try to put it on here. 

It’s weird how other organizations that aren’t the white Sox are capable of fitting it in!

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4 hours ago, bmags said:

It’s weird how other organizations that aren’t the white Sox are capable of fitting it in!

Yeah, maybe they focus on different things. Weird, I know. It's almost like they prioritize something else maybe?

This may blow your mind, but some players don't want very much data at all. They don't want to do a lot of thinking. What do you do with them? Some of those players could be the best players in baseball. 

You don't hand out a packet and give weekly tests. This isn't the NFL with playbooks. 

If a player asks and you don't have it, that's a problem. 

I could understand doing analysis, finding a deficiency with a player and improving it, but framing in general was in its infancy stages in regards to valuing, and still has its validity and efficiency issues today. Stealing strikes or losing balls is subjective to the decision making of another human that is not you. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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On 5/31/2019 at 5:31 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, sure, and most people who actually create these metrics and people who work in analytics and asses these metrics will tell you that the confidence level in regards to those stats are low and that catcher evaluation from an analytical standpoint is in its infancy stages.

Being a good received is 90% of catching defense and there is no efficient grade, beyond "framing" which has it's own problems, to judge a catchers talent. Hence why I said to ask pitchers. Giolito certainly disagrees with your analytical assessment and so do I and I'm, likely, much more analytically driven than you - it is likely a weakness of mine as I struggle to seperate stats from "intangibles" because I find them overrated and I cant put a value on them so I ignore them 99.9% of the time. Catching is not one of those times.

Any stat that tells me McCann isn't a good catcher...isn't much of a stat IMO.  Stat's should more often than not confirm what you already know.  As fans who watch the game every day we do have an eye test that I consider to be quite accurate.  I don't really need to know how fast a ball was hit or the trajectory as it left the yard, etc.  If a guy hits 35 HR's that is the only meaningful stat I care about...not how may feet they travelled in total.  Stats to me are interesting but give me batting ave, rbi's and HR's.

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6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Any stat that tells me McCann isn't a good catcher...isn't much of a stat IMO.  Stat's should more often than not confirm what you already know.  As fans who watch the game every day we do have an eye test that I consider to be quite accurate.  I don't really need to know how fast a ball was hit or the trajectory as it left the yard, etc.  If a guy hits 35 HR's that is the only meaningful stat I care about...not how may feet they travelled in total.  Stats to me are interesting but give me batting ave, rbi's and HR's.

Yes, and McCann’s stats over his career damn well tell you that you shouldn’t jump to give him an extension since this is not the player he has ever been.

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14 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Yes, and McCann’s stats over his career damn well tell you that you shouldn’t jump to give him an extension since this is not the player he has ever been.

A three year extension for 5 million per would please me greatly.

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I don't know if this has been mentioned here previously, but his extension will be influenced by our #1 draft pick tomorrow.  

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He's no big deal let him beg to stay here. 

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