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24 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Same. I think he will come around.

Out of the rest of the group, he has the best chance. 

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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Out of the Basabe/Rutherford/Gonzalez/Adolfo group, Basabe is on the verge of separating himself as the only legit prospect of the group

My goodness. I know the AA OF has been bad and we all have a tendency to live in the moment but we all sure expect a lot of linear growth while we hear a lot of growth isn't linear stuff all the time.

“Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It is a temporary detour, not a dead end. " Denis Waitley

"Failure isn't fatal, but failure to change might be" - John Wooden

“Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.” - Robert F. Kennedy

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5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My goodness. I know the AA OF has been bad and we all have a tendency to live in the moment but we all sure expect a lot of linear growth while we hear a lot of growth isn't linear stuff all the time.

“Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It is a temporary detour, not a dead end. " Denis Waitley

"Failure isn't fatal, but failure to change might be" - John Wooden

“Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.” - Robert F. Kennedy

It would be one thing if these guys were hitting .220-.240 in AA, but they're hovering around or significantly below Mendoza. That goes well beyond normal prospect growing pains. Even Gonzalez hitting .227 is concerning because he's 24. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

It would be one thing if these guys were hitting .220-.240, but they're hovering around or well below Mendoza. That goes well beyond normal prospect growing pains. 

This coming from the guy that saw a good pitcher in a terrible pitcher in Giolito. You don't even get to see any of these kids. And that's just what many of them are , kids.When we were their ages we were doing bong hits and learning why we shouldn't drink so much.

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10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

This coming from the guy that saw a good pitcher in a terrible pitcher in Giolito. You don't even get to see any of these kids. And that's just what many of them are , kids.When we were their ages we were doing bong hits and learning why we shouldn't drink so much.

Pitching is different. As long as the stuff is there, if the guy can harness it they can be good. 

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3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Pitching is different. As long as the stuff is there, if the guy can harness it they can be good. 

How is it different ? You could make a very long list of good hitters who failed somewhere along the line(ar) growth path. Everyone of these guys have the talent ., it's making that talent work that's the difference. Giolito just did what many others with the same stuff fail to do. It's a very fine line between success and failure or what turns failed starters into successful relievers. Why does a late round pick like Buerhle succeed when 1st round picks fail ? Pitching is never all about stuff. It's knowing what to do with it and finding a way to do it consistently.

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5 hours ago, DirtySox said:

Basabe is 2 - 3 today. He's heating up.

Would be ideal. He's personally been one of my biggest disappointments this year cause of how he's looked. Might be because his timing still isn't down from the injury but he looked much better in AA last year in the games I saw.

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1 hour ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Cease - 6IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 7 K

Collins - 1/3, BB

Robert - 1/4

Lambert - 4 1/3 IP, 7 H, 6 ER, 3 BB, 5 K

Hansen - 1 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

Madrigal - 0/2, 3 BB, 3 SB

 

Cease, 5 H 4 BB.

 

Was he throwing secondary/tertiary pitches all game for work?  That's pretty shit.

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1 hour ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Cease - 6IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 7 K

Collins - 1/3, BB

Robert - 1/4

Lambert - 4 1/3 IP, 7 H, 6 ER, 3 BB, 5 K

Hansen - 1 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

Madrigal - 0/2, 3 BB, 3 SB

 

Anyone see how Hansen pitched? 

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1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Cease, 5 H 4 BB.

 

Was he throwing secondary/tertiary pitches all game for work?  That's pretty shit.

Watched all of it.  A lot of cheap hits.  The single that came around to score was a roller, exit velocity probably in the 60’s.  Walks came in bunches.  He lost his mechanics in his last inning.  Issue is consistency in his delivery.  Most of the night he dominated their hitters.

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5 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Would be ideal. He's personally been one of my biggest disappointments this year cause of how he's looked. Might be because his timing still isn't down from the injury but he looked much better in AA last year in the games I saw.

Which provides me optimism.  He was actually pretty good in the second half of his AA stint last year which means he’s capable of making the necessary adjustments to succeed at that level.

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10 minutes ago, mqr said:

Madrigal is .341/378/.439 in his last 10 fyi

.098 iso. Sick

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31 minutes ago, mqr said:

Madrigal is .341/378/.439 in his last 10 fyi

Brace for the “but his OPS!!!”

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41 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Brace for the “but his OPS!!!”

First I'll start off by saying as the high man on Madrigal I am so incredibly disappointed and learned a valuable lesson that that plus baseball IQ and instincts can elevate a player another level only if they are supplemented with a player dev team focused on maximizing their offensive profile. Sox seem to be weirdly only focused on maximizing his baseball IQ like they are going to have the best sac fly player in history. They are such trash it's embarrassing.

That said, I think your comment is shitting on him just for shitting on him sake.

Madrigal had two things to work on after his crappy appearance in W-S last year: increasing walk rate and increasing power. 

He has increased his walk rate to 8% despite no real power showing yet. This is probably going to work in tandem. As he works to increase his selectivity he will likely find better pitches to drive, but there are also mechanical adjustments he needs to make to tap into power more.

Unfortunately sox will not provide that guidance, he'll hopefully go to a private coach in the offseason or get a random tip from a peer in a workout. But because he is so competitive, eventually he will realize sox need him to be a plus offensive player to be valuable and he will figure it out on his own.

Because of his makeup/BIQ, I still believe in him there.

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So is Hansen officially a reliever going forward?  Doesn’t appear they are really stretching him out.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox groom him into an "opener" role, I feel like he could dominate one time through the lineup.

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34 minutes ago, bmags said:

First I'll start off by saying as the high man on Madrigal I am so incredibly disappointed and learned a valuable lesson that that plus baseball IQ and instincts can elevate a player another level only if they are supplemented with a player dev team focused on maximizing their offensive profile. Sox seem to be weirdly only focused on maximizing his baseball IQ like they are going to have the best sac fly player in history. They are such trash it's embarrassing.

That said, I think your comment is shitting on him just for shitting on him sake.

Madrigal had two things to work on after his crappy appearance in W-S last year: increasing walk rate and increasing power. 

He has increased his walk rate to 8% despite no real power showing yet. This is probably going to work in tandem. As he works to increase his selectivity he will likely find better pitches to drive, but there are also mechanical adjustments he needs to make to tap into power more.

Unfortunately sox will not provide that guidance, he'll hopefully go to a private coach in the offseason or get a random tip from a peer in a workout. But because he is so competitive, eventually he will realize sox need him to be a plus offensive player to be valuable and he will figure it out on his own.

Because of his makeup/BIQ, I still believe in him there.

Dude I 100% agree with you.  I was making fun of the people who judge him based on OPS or ISO.  It’s just a hot steamy pile of poop taek.  The ISO and OPS taek is like always taking the checkdown to the running back instead of pump faking a safety off your receiver and burning him for an 80yd TD.  

Too easy gets boring. 

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55 minutes ago, bmags said:

First I'll start off by saying as the high man on Madrigal I am so incredibly disappointed and learned a valuable lesson that that plus baseball IQ and instincts can elevate a player another level only if they are supplemented with a player dev team focused on maximizing their offensive profile. Sox seem to be weirdly only focused on maximizing his baseball IQ like they are going to have the best sac fly player in history. They are such trash it's embarrassing.

That said, I think your comment is shitting on him just for shitting on him sake.

Madrigal had two things to work on after his crappy appearance in W-S last year: increasing walk rate and increasing power. 

He has increased his walk rate to 8% despite no real power showing yet. This is probably going to work in tandem. As he works to increase his selectivity he will likely find better pitches to drive, but there are also mechanical adjustments he needs to make to tap into power more.

Unfortunately sox will not provide that guidance, he'll hopefully go to a private coach in the offseason or get a random tip from a peer in a workout. But because he is so competitive, eventually he will realize sox need him to be a plus offensive player to be valuable and he will figure it out on his own.

Because of his makeup/BIQ, I still believe in him there.

Good post. I'm with you on all of this. It's just incredibly frustrating to see the polished, safe, incredible hit tool player not lighting the world on fire in High-A. I'm confident he will turn it around at some point, but I just wonder if he would be having these kind of struggles if he was in say in the Rays/Astros organization. It's stuff like this that makes me both extremely excited but also terrified of a CJ Abrams selection in 10 days.

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9 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Good post. I'm with you on all of this. It's just incredibly frustrating to see the polished, safe, incredible hit tool player not lighting the world on fire in High-A. I'm confident he will turn it around at some point, but I just wonder if he would be having these kind of struggles if he was in say in the Rays/Astros organization. It's stuff like this that makes me both extremely excited but also terrified of a CJ Abrams selection in 10 days.

Short of a casey mize, I'm not sure there is a profile I think is a slam dunk for them. But seeing Robert succeed makes me want to just lean into athleticism and hope power comes through body development. Shame because Burger would have answered a lot more questions about what a polished college bat does in the system, and just gonna ignore sheets.

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5 hours ago, mqr said:

Madrigal is .341/378/.439 in his last 10 fyi

Dafuq? No he isn't. He's played 10 games since his slump ended and I'm looking at his stats during those 10 games right now. They are .293/.370/.390. I have no idea where you got your numbers. 

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