Embrace The Tank!!!

[fathom]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Trib barely has a Sox beat writer, a lot of that is their own fault.

But that’s their justification for not having one. They said just like University of Illinois athletics, the team is just too bad and doesn’t generate clicks when they do write stories.  I personally think it’s a bunch of crap.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Flash said:

Bingo! The Twins are but one example debunking the notion that rebuild is synonymous with waiting for years until key minor leaguers are ready. Look 90 miles north to the Brewers. They hired a 30 year old GM (Stearns) and took their lumps for a season then acquired Yelich, Moustakis and Cain as well as Grandal last year. You have to have a vision and ability to evaluate talent.

The twins are a taped together stop gappy squad. Like 40% of the team won’t be there next season and well over 50% will be gone by 2021.

Lets not act like the twins have built this super sustainable power house. They’ve caught lightning in a bottle the first 50 games and they’re sure to cool off. He’ll win this division though. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by ChiSox59

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

But that’s their justification for not having one. They said just like University of Illinois athletics, the team is just too bad and doesn’t generate clicks when they do write stories.  I personally think it’s a bunch of crap.

Yes, cut back coverage until nobody goes to you for their coverage then point to that as to why you have no coverage. As I said. The trib has trashed their sports section, it isn’t a meaningful metric.

[Timmy U]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

The twins are a taped together stop gappy squad. Like 40% of the team won’t be there next season and well over 50% will be gone by 2021.

Lets not act like the twins have built this super sustainable power house. They’ve caught lightning in a bottle the first 50 games and they’re sure to cool off. He’ll win this division though. 

Okay, but Berrios, Kepler, Rosario, and Buxton aren’t going anywhere and Kiriloff is a serious prospect.  And their front office, many of whom come from the Indians, have shown they know what they’re doing.   The division is not going to roll over just because Hahn keeps promising multiple championships.  Sox need to get smarter.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The twins are a taped together stop gappy squad. Like 40% of the team won’t be there next season and well over 50% will be gone by 2021.

Lets not act like the twins have built this super sustainable power house. They’ve caught lightning in a bottle the first 50 games and they’re sure to cool off. He’ll win this division though. 

Many would have said same about brewers.

But they have a smart front office that is smart enough to use trades and free agency to provide short term value while players like Kiriloff and Lewis arrive.

[Boopa1219]

I know Hostetler said that the Sox have one of the biggest groups of amateur scouts but I wish they would make a similar commitment to their analytics department and pro scouting, which always seems to be a problem for them as of late. 

[Dick Allen]

I just hope Seby hits a grounder to short or something soon. I wonder what the record is for consecutive strikeouts to begin a career. 

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I just hope Seby hits a grounder to short or something soon. I wonder what the record is for consecutive strikeouts to begin a career. 

A lot more than 5. 

[Dick Allen]

24 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Okay, but Berrios, Kepler, Rosario, and Buxton aren’t going anywhere and Kiriloff is a serious prospect.  And their front office, many of whom come from the Indians, have shown they know what they’re doing.   The division is not going to roll over just because Hahn keeps promising multiple championships.  Sox need to get smarter.

Everything is working for them now, but until you see it for a longer period, I still think they remind me of the 2000 White Sox. They can win, even dominating,but are probably an injury or 2 and reality setting in to being an average team which in the AL Central makes you a playoff contender if not a favorite.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Dick Allen

[ChiSox59]

19 minutes ago, bmags said:

Many would have said same about brewers.

But they have a smart front office that is smart enough to use trades and free agency to provide short term value while players like Kiriloff and Lewis arrive.

Yes, they do have an intelligent front office. But they also just got mostly lucky so this year. Several guys are playing WELL over their ability level all at the same time. 

27 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Okay, but Berrios, Kepler, Rosario, and Buxton aren’t going anywhere and Kiriloff is a serious prospect.  And their front office, many of whom come from the Indians, have shown they know what they’re doing.   The division is not going to roll over just because Hahn keeps promising multiple championships.  Sox need to get smarter.

Correct, tho Rosario is only controlled through 21. 

[Dick Allen]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

A lot more than 5. 

I doubt it is much higher. Especially for a non pitcher

 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Jesus man. Wash your mouth out with some soap.

No one is excited about getting destroyed by the Twins. The Twins suddenly look like a behemoth and force to be reckoned with. It isn't okay to be concerned about them at all?

Tanking for multiple more years seems like the only option since it doesn't appear that JR is gonna open the wallet anytime soon. 

 

 

I’m not going to defend Reinsdorf, but this idea he won’t spend any money is beyond ludicrous.  He isn’t a Jeff Loria type owner looking to rebuild so he can pocket some revenue sharing money.  I’ll keep repeating it but the organization is going spend big this coming offseason.  I won’t get my hopes up that it will be Rendon & Cole (although I think they will make token efforts for both guys), but there are some nice pieces that could really help us.

Zack Wheeler is 28 years old, throws hard as fuck, and is on pace for a 5 win season.  He can be the defacto ace on a young pitching staff.  If Cease can get like half a year or more of major league seasoning this season, the following rotation should be good enough to contend next year:

1. Wheeler
2. Giolito
3. Cease
4. Kopech
5. Lopez
6. Lambert/Dunning/cheap vet*

The bullpen will no doubt need work, but again, we’ll be sitting on a fuckton of a money and should easily be able to add a quality veteran or two to the mix.

As for the offense, we have three spots 100% filled in 3B, SS, & LF.  Abreu will likely be back on a short-term deal.  McCann at a minimum will be in the mix at catcher if not the starter.  Collins will be in the mix somewhere, whether C, 1B, or DH.  Robert should be ready to go by late April IMO and we can probably get by with some combo of Leury, Tilson, & Cordell in CF for a month.  That leaves our biggest holes in RF, 2B, and possibly DH.

Give me the 28 year old Marcel Ozuna to  fill the hole in RF (dude is destroying the ball this year despite some bad luck and his power would play well at the Cell).  Go sign an older, but still productive 2B  (Forsythe, Kendrick, etc.) to a cheap one year contract to hold down the fort until Madrigal is ready.  And if it’s me, as good as McCann has been, I’m going to add to Grandal as well as he’s simply a game-changer behind the plate.  That leaves you with the following lineup:

1. Moncada, 3B#
2. Anderson, SS
3. Abreu, DH
4. Jimenez, LF
5. Grandal, C#
6. Ozuna, RF
7. Collins, DH*
8. Garcia, CF# (Robert by May 1st)
9. Forsythe, 2B

Tell me that team isn’t good enough to make a run at a shitty AL Central?  And I 100% believe that type of offseason is possible financially despite what you and some others might think.

[Timmy U]

If Zack Wheeler is a #1, Giolito is a HoF candidate.  4.6 era with a 1.3 whip in the best pitching environment in mlb, facing lineups with the pitcher hitting.  No thanks.

[Flash]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Everything is working for them now, but until you see it for a longer period, I still think they remind me of the 2000 White Sox. They can win, even dominating,but are probably an injury or 2 and reality setting in to being an average team which in the AL Central makes you a playoff contender if not a favorite.

Dinging them for style points seems misguided. And BTW, they were Wild Card team in 2017 and should walk away with the division this year. They will figure out a way to stay the course because thats what well run organizations do.

[Flash]

These are rhetorical questions but go to my point that 'rebuild' is code for 1) cut expenses; 2) give frustrated fans something to look forward to 3) exhibit no accountability 4) offer no timeline or actual progress markers and 5) provide job security for the undeserving.

1) We'll know the rebuild is complete when...(fill in the blank)

2) The rebuild will take ____years ?

3) We can measure our progress against ?
a. how key minor league players are progressing
b. wins and losses
c. Cubs and Astros trajectory/timing
d. dunno...its more of a 'feel' kind of thing 
 

[Hawks-n-Sox]

I found this on Baseball Almanac regarding Seby's 4ks yesterday.

 

The Major League record for most strikeouts during a players first game ever is four. Those who have worn a "golden sombrero" and entered this record book during their debut are: Billy Sunday (May 22, 1883), Hercules Burnett (June 26, 1888), George Goetz (June 17, 1889), Rollie Naylor (September 14, 1917), Lee Bales (August 7, 1966), and Sam Ewing(September 11, 1973).

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

If Zack Wheeler is a #1, Giolito is a HoF candidate.  4.6 era with a 1.3 whip in the best pitching environment in mlb, facing lineups with the pitcher hitting.  No thanks.

Why are we using ERA to evaluate a pitcher in May?  Also, does his stadium somehow allow him to K more hitters than other NL pitchers?  I have no idea why Wheeler gets so much hate on this board.  Dude is literally one of the hardest throwers in baseball and actually has good enough command to be a legit TOR starter.  If our medical staff feels they can keep him healthy, I’m 100% all-in after Cole.

[Timmy U]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why are we using ERA to evaluate a pitcher in May?  Also, does his stadium somehow allow him to K more hitters than other NL pitchers?  I have no idea why Wheeler gets so much hate on this board.  Dude is literally one of the hardest throwers in baseball and actually has good enough command to be a legit TOR starter.  If our medical staff feels they can keep him healthy, I’m 100% all-in after Cole.

Agree to disagree.  Injury prone guy with high upside is a legitimate play, I just think the high whip in a park that suppresses exit velocity is a bad sign moving to the G Rate, especially on a big long-term contract.  Point is moot as there’s no way the Sox are signing him, but if he’s supposed to be the Sox version of Lester or Verlander, I would rather have someone with more track record.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Many would have said same about brewers.

But they have a smart front office that is smart enough to use trades and free agency to provide short term value while players like Kiriloff and Lewis arrive.

but how long will it last with losing draft picks to sign mediocre free agents.  they're got now but get back to me at the end if the year and next year. People on this board would be going nuts sacrificing draft picks for short term gain.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Timmy U said:

Agree to disagree.  Injury prone guy with high upside is a legitimate play, I just think the high whip in a park that suppresses exit velocity is a bad sign moving to the G Rate, especially on a big long-term contract.  Point is moot as there’s no way the Sox are signing him, but if he’s supposed to be the Sox version of Lester or Verlander, I would rather have someone with more track record.

The problem is there aren’t a ton of reliable TOR starters and even less that will be available just for money.  There are handful of mid rotation starters that will available next offseason, but if you want a TOR guy it’s either spend massively on Cole, gamble a bit on Wheeler, or trade the few high end prospects we have for one (which would be disastrous IMO).  While I’d love Cole it’s obviously a pipe dream as he’ll get way more years than we’ll be prepared to go on an arm.  I do think Wheeler’s injury history keeps the years down to an amount we can play in (5 max).  And if the Sox can’t swing that kind of deal, then we all might as well find new hobbies because the rebuild will simply not be successful.  We don’t have the ammo to fill our holes via trade.

[Moan4Yoan]

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

but how long will it last with losing draft picks to sign mediocre free agents.  they're got now but get back to me at the end if the year and next year. People on this board would be going nuts sacrificing draft picks for short term gain.

If you draft guys like Fulmer and Burger, you may as well sign free agents.

[Greg Hibbard]

Most of us really have no idea what the Sox prospects are beyond this year. Saying things like “they won’t be good next year” or “they won’t be good for 3-4 years” - just stop. I get that you are venting. It’s too early to know. We are all somewhat frustrated.

Most of our main future studs are on track or close (Moncada, Anderson, Eloy’s power game looks legit, Giolito rounding into form, Lopez can still be good) and most of the hot garbage will be gone soon, after this year (Yolmer, Yonder, Welington, Nova, many of the bad relievers). We all knew this was a 70-75 win and they are on pace for that. 

Things will feel a lot better once we start getting more of our future guys up here

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Hawks-n-Sox said:

I found this on Baseball Almanac regarding Seby's 4ks yesterday.

 

The Major League record for most strikeouts during a players first game ever is four. Those who have worn a "golden sombrero" and entered this record book during their debut are: Billy Sunday (May 22, 1883), Hercules Burnett (June 26, 1888), George Goetz (June 17, 1889), Rollie Naylor (September 14, 1917), Lee Bales (August 7, 1966), and Sam Ewing(September 11, 1973).

So the last two to do it have been with the White Sox, counting yesterday.

[bmags]

45 minutes ago, ptatc said:

but how long will it last with losing draft picks to sign mediocre free agents.  they're got now but get back to me at the end if the year and next year. People on this board would be going nuts sacrificing draft picks for short term gain.

Who did the twins lose a pick to sign?

[ScootsMcGoots]

Injuries have just slowed this whole thing down so much. Maybe not derailed it, but definitely slowed it way down. Kopech and Cease should be up here right now. Robert and Dunning should be knocking on the door, Burdi should be up, Burger should be in AA, Basabe and Hansen in AAA, Adolfo probably in MLB. 

Injuries just have sucked the life out of this whole thing.

Edited May 27, 2019 by ScooterMcGee