Jon Jay finally assigned for rehab in AA

[poppysox]

I think it's really something how Rick Hahn is made out to be a dullard by some on this forum.  He is a Harvard grad with agent experience.  He has done some great things like extending Sale, Q & Eaton and then turning those players into a gold mine of talent.  IMO we could do a lot worse than RH.  Now Kenny is another story.

[whitesoxbrad]

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I think it's really something how Rick Hahn is made out to be a dullard by some on this forum.  He is a Harvard grad with agent experience.  He has done some great things like extending Sale, Q & Eaton and then turning those players into a gold mine of talent.  IMO we could do a lot worse than RH.  Now Kenny is another story.

The White Sox play a horrible brand of Baseball, hahn is the general manager, these are his players, and I can care less if he is a Harvard grad, hahn is a horrible general manager.

 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I think it's really something how Rick Hahn is made out to be a dullard by some on this forum.  He is a Harvard grad with agent experience.  He has done some great things like extending Sale, Q & Eaton and then turning those players into a gold mine of talent.  IMO we could do a lot worse than RH.  Now Kenny is another story.

He is very very good at contracts and financial matters. 

Going to Harvard and Michigan law really doesn't mean squat in the long run. As a BASEBALL guy, knowing players, being able to properly evaluate them, being able to execute trades and signings that at least work out say, half of the time for the White Sox, history shows he is very, very bad.

He is NOT a good baseball G.M. Granted the circumstances but even when the Sox were "going for it" he couldn't put together a team that could even win more than they lost at the end of the year. 

His resume is awful from a baseball performance standpoint. That's not an opinion... this is a results based industry and the results are very plain to see in the won / loss column.

[JoshPR]

13 hours ago, poppysox said:

I think it's really something how Rick Hahn is made out to be a dullard by some on this forum.  He is a Harvard grad with agent experience.  He has done some great things like extending Sale, Q & Eaton and then turning those players into a gold mine of talent.  IMO we could do a lot worse than RH.  Now Kenny is another story.

+1 agreed. Hahn I can pass. Kenny is terrible

[bmags]

It's cool that Hahn came from the type of family that allowed him to get multiple degrees during his 20s and then go into a virtually unpaid position as a scout, but a lot of baseball orgs have harvard mbas and multiple degrees so it's not really an advantage. His degree hasn't led to anything particularly advantageous vs. other clubs so I'm not sure why I should praise it.

[Superstar Lamar]

never simply defer to the place a person received a degree

Washington is jam packed impressively degreed mess ups.

[Dick Allen]

 

2 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

never simply defer to the place a person received a degree

Washington is jam packed impressively degreed mess ups.

I don't know how any of the degrees helps him evaluate baseball talent and build a baseball team ,  but an undergrad from Michigan, a law degree from Harvard, and an MBA from Northwestern does indicate he's a pretty bright guy. 

[poppysox]

6 hours ago, bmags said:

It's cool that Hahn came from the type of family that allowed him to get multiple degrees during his 20s and then go into a virtually unpaid position as a scout, but a lot of baseball orgs have harvard mbas and multiple degrees so it's not really an advantage. His degree hasn't led to anything particularly advantageous vs. other clubs so I'm not sure why I should praise it.

I only use his degree and experience to say he is not a dumb bunny.  He speaks with other baseball people on an hourly basis.  I know I don't have his knowledge of players of the other 29 teams and their availability.  Sincerely doubt any member of this forum has his overall knowledge of contracts and what goes into getting the guy you are seeking.  In short...I sometime get frustrated with various Sox related moves but I damn sure know I couldn't do his job.  I don't know who the best GM in baseball is... but pretty sure he isn't on this forum.

Edited June 7, 2019 by poppysox

[Orlando]

20 hours ago, poppysox said:

I think it's really something how Rick Hahn is made out to be a dullard by some on this forum.  He is a Harvard grad with agent experience.  He has done some great things like extending Sale, Q & Eaton and then turning those players into a gold mine of talent.  IMO we could do a lot worse than RH.  Now Kenny is another story.

I’m no Kenny fan but until RH can put up results like Kenny, there is no comparison. His strength is team friendly , early extensions and it ends there IMHO

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I only use his degree and experience to say he is not a dumb bunny.  He speaks with other baseball people on an hourly basis.  I know I don't have his knowledge of players of the other 29 teams and their availability.  Sincerely doubt any member of this forum has his overall knowledge of contracts and what goes into getting the guy you are seeking.  In short...I sometime get frustrated with various Sox related moves but I damn sure know I couldn't do his job.  I don't know who the best GM in baseball is... but pretty sure he isn't on this forum.

So hire him as a GC. That he has more information than a fan and comes to worse conclusions, consistently, is not impressive. We have a great tool to evaluate him, we can compare him to his peers, who have remarkably similar circumstances.

[Lip Man 1]

28 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I only use his degree and experience to say he is not a dumb bunny.  He speaks with other baseball people on an hourly basis.  I know I don't have his knowledge of players of the other 29 teams and their availability.  Sincerely doubt any member of this forum has his overall knowledge of contracts and what goes into getting the guy you are seeking.  In short...I sometime get frustrated with various Sox related moves but I damn sure know I couldn't do his job.  I don't know who the best GM in baseball is... but pretty sure he isn't on this forum.

I'm also pretty sure he's not working in the Sox front office either.

Poppy, it's not rocket science. Look at the guys he's acquired or signed during his tenure. How many of them honestly played worth a damn while with the Sox? That's all you need to know about the guy. Again it is not totally his fault but he is the G.M. and has to take a lot of the responsibility.  

[Tnetennba]

 

[ron883]

1 minute ago, SouthWallace said:

 

The Sox have no use for him. I hope he doesn't play

 

[poppysox]

1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I'm also pretty sure he's not working in the Sox front office either.

Poppy, it's not rocket science. Look at the guys he's acquired or signed during his tenure. How many of them honestly played worth a damn while with the Sox? That's all you need to know about the guy. Again it is not totally his fault but he is the G.M. and has to take a lot of the responsibility.  

Abreau, Madrigal, Sale, Q, Moncada, Eloy, McCann, Kopech, Cease, Bummer, Giolito, Marshall, Anderson, Tilson and others that you already have discussed many times.

[WBWSF]

36 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I only use his degree and experience to say he is not a dumb bunny.  He speaks with other baseball people on an hourly basis.  I know I don't have his knowledge of players of the other 29 teams and their availability.  Sincerely doubt any member of this forum has his overall knowledge of contracts and what goes into getting the guy you are seeking.  In short...I sometime get frustrated with various Sox related moves but I damn sure know I couldn't do his job.  I don't know who the best GM in baseball is... but pretty sure he isn't on this forum.

I don't think Hahn is a dumb bunny. He's just the worse White Sox GM in their modern history. (post 1951) If he lost his GM job with the White Sox he would never be hired by another team as there GM.

[poppysox]

3 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I don't think Hahn is a dumb bunny. He's just the worse White Sox GM in their modern history. (post 1951) If he lost his GM job with the White Sox he would never be hired by another team as there GM.

Well I would say Hawk Harrelson & Kenney Williams would both beat him to that title.  I don't know if he would or would not be offered other GM jobs.  You don't either.

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, poppysox said:

Abreau, Madrigal, Sale, Q, Moncada, Eloy, McCann, Kopech, Cease, Bummer, Giolito, Marshall, Anderson, Tilson and others that you already have discussed many times.

Now add up the stiffs, retreads, cast-off's, has-been's and never were's he spent millions of dollars wasted on. Look at the list that was published here on this very site. Based on WAR literally only four or five guys performed in a positive manner for the Sox that Hahn got either via trade or free agency.

And by the way Hahn did not draft Sale that was Kenny and I don't think he was in charge when Q was plucked from the Yankees either. And let's not anoint Madrigal as anything yet shall we? He may turn out to be another Carson Fulmer right? We'll see.

My point being, based simply on the numbers, the failures far outweigh the number of "success stories" by a VERY wide margin. That's not a recipe for success is it sir?

Honestly I admire your loyalty to him and respect your point of view but factually he is bad at what he is being paid very well to do. And naturally he isn't suffering any consequences for it from the higher up's.

[poppysox]

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Now add up the stiffs, retreads, cast-off's, has-been's and never were's he spent millions of dollars wasted on. Look at the list that was published here on this very site. Based on WAR literally only four or five guys performed in a positive manner for the Sox that Hahn got either via trade or free agency.

And by the way Hahn did not draft Sale that was Kenny and I don't think he was in charge when Q was plucked from the Yankees either. And let's not anoint Madrigal as anything yet shall we? He may turn out to be another Carson Fulmer right? We'll see.

My point being, based simply on the numbers, the failures far outweigh the number of "success stories" by a VERY wide margin. That's not a recipe for success is it sir?

Honestly I admire your loyalty to him and respect your point of view but factually he is bad at what he is being paid very well to do. And naturally he isn't suffering any consequences for it from the higher up's.

That's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

[Boopa1219]

They should cut ties with Alonso when Jay joins the ML team. 

[poppysox]

6 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

They should cut ties with Alonso when Jay joins the ML team. 

They should cut ties to both...they serve no useful purpose.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

They should cut ties to both...they serve no useful purpose.

 

 

14 hours ago, poppysox said:

Abreau, Madrigal, Sale, Q, Moncada, Eloy, McCann, Kopech, Cease, Bummer, Giolito, Marshall, Anderson, Tilson and others that you already have discussed many times.

And here it is . Plain for all to see this wonderful grouping you use to demonstrate Hahn's worthiness as GM . Sale a draft pick got him Mocada and Kopech. You don't think a few of us on this board could've picked three or 4 minor league players who were worthy of one of the best pitchers in baseball ? Moncada has had 1/2  season of success Kopech  nothing except  a big injury.

Madrigal  has accomplished nothing yet. We all want him to but he doesn't belong on a list of accomplishments. Again many here could've picked the 4th pick in the draft last year.

Eloy  and Cease .Another 2 that have accomplished nothing so far.

Bummer a relief pitcher with no sustain success. Stellar example.

Giolito. His failures outweighs his success so far. Less than 1/2 a season of a good baseball career.

Marshall another relief pitcher who has failed most of his career and with less than half a season of a good baseball career.

Tilson , really  ? You want to use a career minor league guy as an example of Hahn success stories ? The only thing Tilson has been good at is being injured. Harsh I know but unfortunately true.

That leaves Abreu and Anderson on your 14 player list of Hahn accomplishments. I will give you these 2 as having some sustained success but even last year there were some on this board suggesting Anderson was nothing special.

Let me also remind you and you can also use this to your advantage  , that Hahn has many talent evaluators under him . Doing the legwork, making recommendations. He also has the owner over him controlling the purse strings. SO perhaps the best I can say about Hahn is that the right people below him may not be the best and the guy above him might not be the guy the Sox need to spend lavishly. Perhaps it is Reinsdorfs loyalty that hampers Hahn on his acquisitions and from hiring the people Hahn himself may desire but might not be able to get due to Reinsdorfs loyalty to his employees or his loyalty to his investors.

Then there are the 2 guys you just said we should cut ties with , Alonso and Jay. Since you like to use players acquired to use as a gauge to message success then didn't Hahn acquire those 2 in a a experiment that failed miserably ? DId Hahn not approve of signing Eloy's brother in an attempt to appease Eloy and buy his loyalty ? Maybe Enoy is a player? Doubtful.

There are also many on this board capable of picking the right free agents to sign and have demonstrated in in their posting history even if that is difficult to prove.

Lip is a Sox historian and author. He has forgotten more about the Sox than most of us know. He's has read and wrote about it for many years. He knows failure all too well when he sees it.

Oh I forgot McCann. Mosty below average production for McCann too in his Detroit career.. Of course as a GM you need some luck  . So far McCann is 1/2 a season of luck falling into Hahn's lap. Mostly picked because all other cheap FA catchers were ancient.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[whitesoxbrad]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

 

And here it is . Plain for all to see this wonderful grouping you use to demonstrate Hahn's worthiness as GM . Sale a draft pick got him Mocada and Kopech. You don't think a few of us on this board could've picked three or 4 minor league players who were worthy of one of the best pitchers in baseball ? Moncada has had 1/2  of success Kopech  nothing except  a big injury.

Madrigal  has accomplished nothing yet. We all want him to but he doesn't belong on a list of accomplishments. Again many here could've picked the 4th pick in the draft last year, 0 points

Eloy  and Cease .Another 2 that have accomplished nothing so far.

Bummer a relief pitcher with no sustain success. Stellar example.

Giolito. His failures outweighs his success so far. Less than1/2 a season of a good baseball career.

Marshall another relief pitcher who has failed most of his career and with less than half a season of a good baseball career.

Tilson , really  ?You want to use a career minor league guy as an example of Hahn success stories ? The only thing Tilson has been good at is being injured. Harsh I know but unfortunately true.

That leaves Abreu and Anderson on your 14 player list of Hahn accomplishments. I will give you these 2 as having some sustained success but even last year there were some on this board suggesting Anderson was nothing special.

Let me also remind you and you can also use this to your advantage  , that Hahn has many talent evaluators under him . Doing the legwork, making recommendations. He also has the owner over him controlling the purse strings. SO perhaps the best I can sat about Hahn is that the right people below him may not be the best and the guy above him might not be the guy the Sox need to spend lavishly. Perhaps it is Reinsdorfs loyalty that hampers Hahn on his acquisitions and how the hiring you people Hahn himself may desire but might not be able to get due to Reinsdorfs oyalty to them or his loyalty to his investors.

Then there are the 2 guy you just said we should cut ties with , Alonso and Jay. Since you like to use players acquired to use as a gauge to message success then didn't Hahn acquire those 2 in a a experiment that failed miserably ? DId Hahn not approve of signing Eloy's brother in an attempt to appease Eloy and buy his loyalty ? Maybe Enoy is a player? Doubtful.

Lip is a Sox historian and author. He has forgotten more about the Sox than most of us know. He's has read and wrote about it for many years. He knows failure all too well when he sees it.

 

 

 

Great analysis and painfully true.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 hours ago, Orlando said:

I’m no Kenny fan but until RH can put up results like Kenny, there is no comparison. His strength is team friendly , early extensions and it ends there IMHO

Yes at least KW won the Sox a World Series  with perhaps the same constraints that Reinsdorf has put on Hahn. If they are both under these same restraints where the Sox can only choose the less talented free agents  at least Kenny did it well enough to win. Funny how Hahn is loved while Kenny is hated by some. Hmm what's the difference  between them? Hmmm I wonder.

[BackDoorBreach]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes at least KW won the Sox a World Series  with perhaps the same constraints that Reinsdorf has put on Hahn. If they are both under these same restraints where the Sox can only choose the less talented free agents  at least Kenny did it well enough to win. Funny how Hahn is loved while Kenny is hated by some. Hmm what's the difference  between them? Hmmm I wonder.

Yeah, I don't like Kenny and love Rick Hahn because Kenny Williams is black.  What a stupid fucking post.

 

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

 

And here it is . Plain for all to see this wonderful grouping you use to demonstrate Hahn's worthiness as GM . Sale a draft pick got him Mocada and Kopech. You don't think a few of us on this board could've picked three or 4 minor league players who were worthy of one of the best pitchers in baseball ? Moncada has had 1/2  season of success Kopech  nothing except  a big injury.

Madrigal  has accomplished nothing yet. We all want him to but he doesn't belong on a list of accomplishments. Again many here could've picked the 4th pick in the draft last year.

Eloy  and Cease .Another 2 that have accomplished nothing so far.

Bummer a relief pitcher with no sustain success. Stellar example.

Giolito. His failures outweighs his success so far. Less than 1/2 a season of a good baseball career.

Marshall another relief pitcher who has failed most of his career and with less than half a season of a good baseball career.

Tilson , really  ? You want to use a career minor league guy as an example of Hahn success stories ? The only thing Tilson has been good at is being injured. Harsh I know but unfortunately true.

That leaves Abreu and Anderson on your 14 player list of Hahn accomplishments. I will give you these 2 as having some sustained success but even last year there were some on this board suggesting Anderson was nothing special.

Let me also remind you and you can also use this to your advantage  , that Hahn has many talent evaluators under him . Doing the legwork, making recommendations. He also has the owner over him controlling the purse strings. SO perhaps the best I can say about Hahn is that the right people below him may not be the best and the guy above him might not be the guy the Sox need to spend lavishly. Perhaps it is Reinsdorfs loyalty that hampers Hahn on his acquisitions and from hiring the people Hahn himself may desire but might not be able to get due to Reinsdorfs loyalty to his employees or his loyalty to his investors.

Then there are the 2 guys you just said we should cut ties with , Alonso and Jay. Since you like to use players acquired to use as a gauge to message success then didn't Hahn acquire those 2 in a a experiment that failed miserably ? DId Hahn not approve of signing Eloy's brother in an attempt to appease Eloy and buy his loyalty ? Maybe Enoy is a player? Doubtful.

There are also many on this board capable of picking the right free agents to sign and have demonstrated in in their posting history even if that is difficult to prove.

Lip is a Sox historian and author. He has forgotten more about the Sox than most of us know. He's has read and wrote about it for many years. He knows failure all too well when he sees it.

Oh I forgot McCann. Mosty below average production for McCann too in his Detroit career.. Of course as a GM you need some luck  . So far McCann is 1/2 a season of luck falling into Hahn's lap. Mostly picked because all other cheap FA catchers were ancient.