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ron883

Abreu after this season

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1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We have a league and park and slash adjusted stat called wRC+ that encapsulates a players value at the dish relative to everbody else: Jose has a 104 wRC+.

Ironically, your rant cherry picked SLG to defend his value while ranting about others doing it.  

 Jose is stuck at .2 fWAR.  He's now at  1.4 fWAR in his last 200 fucking games.  That's a 1 WAR PLAYER!

 I have a Jose Abreu signed baseball and it remains one of my favorite Sox moments when he signed for me in 2014 and then won ROY.  But that doesn't color my analysis of his value in 2019 and in the future.  

I'd argue that it's also cherry picking, or at least disingenuous, to present his 2019 fWAR and wRC+ without accounting for the extremely low BABIP relative to his normal mark. 

Edited by Jose Abreu
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1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'd argue that it's also cherry picking, or at least disingenuous, to present his 2019 fWAR and wRC+ without accounting for the extremely low BABIP relative to his normal mark. 

He's a 2 WAR true talent player.  Would you agree?  

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1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's a 2 WAR true talent player.  Would you agree?  

At this point, yes. I said earlier in the thread that there's probably not a fit for him on this team anymore past 2020. I just think he has been unlucky, and by the end of the season it will normalize somewhat. Just not to the point where he's 2014-2017 Abreu. 

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4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

At this point, yes. I said earlier in the thread that there's probably not a fit for him on this team anymore past 2020. I just think he has been unlucky, and by the end of the season it will normalize somewhat. Just not to the point where he's 2014-2017 Abreu. 

Yea I agree, he's been a bit unlucky but his future in Chicago doesn't really change as a result.

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3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We have a league and park and slash adjusted stat called wRC+ that encapsulates a players value at the dish relative to everbody else: Jose has a 104 wRC+.

Ironically, your rant cherry picked SLG to defend his value while ranting about others doing it.  

Jose is stuck at .2 fWAR.  He's now at  1.4 fWAR in his last 200 fucking games.  That's a 1 WAR PLAYER!

I have a Jose Abreu signed baseball and it remains one of my favorite Sox moments when he signed for me in 2014 and then won ROY.  But that doesn't color my analysis of his value in 2019 and in the future.  

Wouldn't be you without an f word or two. How old are you? I would recommend creative writing. 

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So, I don't see anyone having suggested this yet, but someone ought to.

How much is it worth to have Abreu on the roster when Robert comes up?

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19 hours ago, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

                                                                                                                               :dipshit:

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6 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

                                                                                                                               :dipshit:

I agree with this guy, wiht his emoji, what he says about the original post that started this thread. It seems that we get one of these threads on here every two or three weeks and they're just stupid. I've said it over and over: Abreu is our best player. All-Star starter last year, only all-star. Only White Sox listed as one of top-100 players in the league at start of season (I admit that this list would probably include a couple more now). 

The original poster said, "It is no secret that he is on the decline." This is so stupid. Abreu seems well on his way to have career best  in home runs and RBIs. How is that on a "decline"? It's ridiculous to make that claim. Yes, his batting average is down, but Steve Stone addressed that saying that he's scarificing batting average for power and RBIs, launch angle and all that. He is tied for the league lead for RBIs and you talk like we should just let him go because he's falling apart? It makes no sense. 

You act like we'll just bring Collins up and he'll do what "declining" Abreu has been doing. Collins with his .262 average and 9 home runs in AAA?

Probably the funniest thing he said was that the Sox will just sign J. D. Martinez next year. Have you been following the White Sox organization at all? Could you please return to earth with the rest of us. 

And what bothers me the most is the people on here agreeing with this yutz. 

 

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14 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I agree with this guy, wiht his emoji, what he says about the original post that started this thread. It seems that we get one of these threads on here every two or three weeks and they're just stupid. I've said it over and over: Abreu is our best player. All-Star starter last year, only all-star. Only White Sox listed as one of top-100 players in the league at start of season (I admit that this list would probably include a couple more now). 

The original poster said, "It is no secret that he is on the decline." This is so stupid. Abreu seems well on his way to have career best  in home runs and RBIs. How is that on a "decline"? It's ridiculous to make that claim. Yes, his batting average is down, but Steve Stone addressed that saying that he's scarificing batting average for power and RBIs, launch angle and all that. He is tied for the league lead for RBIs and you talk like we should just let him go because he's falling apart? It makes no sense. 

You act like we'll just bring Collins up and he'll do what "declining" Abreu has been doing. Collins with his .262 average and 9 home runs in AAA?

Probably the funniest thing he said was that the Sox will just sign J. D. Martinez next year. Have you been following the White Sox organization at all? Could you please return to earth with the rest of us. 

And what bothers me the most is the people on here agreeing with this yutz. 

 

You're using lousy statistics and making false claims such as "Abreu is our best player". Seriously? Abreu is not even close to our best player, and that is blatantly obvious. Can you say with a straight face that he is better than Tim, Yoan, or Giolito? Abreu has not be that great this year. He has a whopping .2 fWAR. Not great. 

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5 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We have a league and park and slash adjusted stat called wRC+ that encapsulates a players value at the dish relative to everbody else: Jose has a 104 wRC+.

Ironically, your rant cherry picked SLG to defend his value while ranting about others doing it.  

Jose is stuck at .2 fWAR.  He's now at  1.4 fWAR in his last 200 fucking games.  That's a 1 WAR PLAYER!

I have a Jose Abreu signed baseball and it remains one of my favorite Sox moments when he signed for me in 2014 and then won ROY.  But that doesn't color my analysis of his value in 2019 and in the future.  

wRC+ isn’t predictive and it’s very clear Jose has gotten unlucky this year based on the quality of his contact.  That’s not to say he’s extremely valuable, but he’s been better than his core numbers suggest.

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11 minutes ago, ron883 said:

You're using lousy statistics and making false claims such as "Abreu is our best player". Seriously? Abreu is not even close to our best player, and that is blatantly obvious. Can you say with a straight face that he is better than Tim, Yoan, or Giolito? Abreu has not be that great this year. He has a whopping .2 fWAR. Not great. 

I've pointed this out before. He was the only Sox to make the all-star team last year. Now, I didn't put him as a starter on the all-star team last year, so some other people must think he's the Sox best player (at least last year). Also, MLB.com listed, at the start of the season, the 100 best players in the majors, Abreu was the only Sox player on that list. Again, I didn't make up that list. Now, I'm sure next year other Sox will be on that MLB.com list, but so will Abreu. You can, and I do, certainly argue that Abreu is our best player. That is a lot, a lot closer to the truth than to say he's obviously on a decline. 

And seriously, we have so many obsure stats to rate players. What the hell is fWar ( I know: wins above replacement, but what is the "f" thing). I like the thread on here where the guy talked about how the Sox team that won the World Series, all the everyday players had average WARs. Sorry, no way to do I think  that Joe Crede and A. J. were average league players that year. I have a ton more faith in leading the league in RBIs than an "fwar" of .2. 

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2 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I've pointed this out before. He was the only Sox to make the all-star team last year. Now, I didn't put him as a starter on the all-star team last year, so some other people must think he's the Sox best player (at least last year). Also, MLB.com listed, at the start of the season, the 100 best players in the majors, Abreu was the only Sox player on that list. Again, I didn't make up that list. Now, I'm sure next year other Sox will be on that MLB.com list, but so will Abreu. You can, and I do, certainly argue that Abreu is our best player. That is a lot, a lot closer to the truth than to say he's obviously on a decline. 

And seriously, we have so many obsure stats to rate players. What the hell is fWar ( I know: wins above replacement, but what is the "f" thing). I like the thread on here where the guy talked about how the Sox team that won the World Series, all the everyday players had average WARs. Sorry, no way to do I think  that Joe Crede and A. J. were average league players that year. I have a ton more faith in leading the league in RBIs than an "fwar" of .2. 

Saying Abreu is our best player is nowhere near the truth. It's fantasy land. 

The world series thread shows how dominant our pitching staff was. 

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2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

I agree with this guy, wiht his emoji, what he says about the original post that started this thread. It seems that we get one of these threads on here every two or three weeks and they're just stupid. I've said it over and over: Abreu is our best player. All-Star starter last year, only all-star. Only White Sox listed as one of top-100 players in the league at start of season (I admit that this list would probably include a couple more now). 

The original poster said, "It is no secret that he is on the decline." This is so stupid. Abreu seems well on his way to have career best  in home runs and RBIs. How is that on a "decline"? It's ridiculous to make that claim. Yes, his batting average is down, but Steve Stone addressed that saying that he's scarificing batting average for power and RBIs, launch angle and all that. He is tied for the league lead for RBIs and you talk like we should just let him go because he's falling apart? It makes no sense. 

You act like we'll just bring Collins up and he'll do what "declining" Abreu has been doing. Collins with his .262 average and 9 home runs in AAA?

Probably the funniest thing he said was that the Sox will just sign J. D. Martinez next year. Have you been following the White Sox organization at all? Could you please return to earth with the rest of us. 

And what bothers me the most is the people on here agreeing with this yutz. 

 

Not only are you right but management considers him the leader of the rebuild and our Cuban ambassador. Once he stops digging in the dirt for crappy sliders he usually takes over the league for a couple weeks. Now let the teenagers spat over him for a while.

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9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

All star appearences and RBIs?  Really?

 

Jorge Soler is 5th in the AL in RBIs. Little known fact, but he is a top 10 player in the AL!

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My beef with Jose is that he is one of the least athletic players in the league and he doesn't seem to care about his conditioning, judging by his appearance and his movement on the field. 

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1 minute ago, pcq said:

My beef with Jose is that he is one of the least athletic players in the league and he doesn't seem to care about his conditioning, judging by his appearance and his movement on the field. 

At this point, it doesn’t matter much.  He’s old and he’s a DH.  I’d be fine extending him for 2 years.  Not sure about 3.

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4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

So, I don't see anyone having suggested this yet, but someone ought to.

How much is it worth to have Abreu on the roster when Robert comes up?

I think we need to make Jose a lifer. I know he isn't worth the money, but he is a great leader and our guys love him to death. He helps players transition to this country and MLB. We put shitty teams around him and he deserves a shot to win a title with us. He gave us chance to sign him and stuck it out, we'd be bogus for letting him go if he agreed to a decent deal. 

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22 hours ago, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

Man. It's like the only topics on the board are flipping Colome and Abreu's future with the team. I guess until we finally deal Abreu people will keep talking about why we should get rid of Abreu. Sports is so weird in how some guys are judged differently than others. Abreu is raking in RBIs again this year and has produced year after year for a horseshit team. It's not easy to perform well when 2/3 of your games mean nothing. Sad we dislike some of our own so much.

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22 hours ago, fathom said:

I think your best chance to have a killer offense going forward is Vaughn at 1B, JDM at DH and Eloy in LF.  The goal should be to put together the best offense possible, and not just keep someone around because they're "good for the clubhouse".

Abreu has 52 RBI and 16 HRs. I realize these stats mean nothing nowadays but they should. His production is better than Machado for gosh sakes. I'm a little surprised you think he's only "good for the clubhouse." Thought you were more fair than that.

Edited by greg775
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1 minute ago, greg775 said:

Abreu has 52 RBI and 16 HRs. I realize these stats mean nothing nowadays but they should. His production is better than Machado for gosh sakes. I'm a little surprised you think he's only "good for the clubhouse." Thought you were more fair than that.

I love Abreu, he’s been a fantastic player and an even better representative of the franchise.  I personally believe the money could be better spent elsewhere.  I won’t hate it if he’s extended, but will hate it if that’s their big offseason move.

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5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think we need to make Jose a lifer. I know he isn't worth the money, but he is a great leader and our guys love him to death. He helps players transition to this country and MLB. We put shitty teams around him and he deserves a shot to win a title with us. He gave us chance to sign him and stuck it out, we'd be bogus for letting him go if he agreed to a decent deal. 

Deserved got nothing to do with it, just his time is all.

 

4 hours ago, pcq said:

Wouldn't be you without an f word or two. How old are you? I would recommend creative writing. 

Ironically as I've aged I've come to care less and less about grammar and convention when writing online, especially on message boards.   I'm probably older than you are I'd imagine look when I registered FFS.

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