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ron883

Abreu after this season

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22 hours ago, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

Why this obsession with Abreu's OBP?  Isn't his job to knock in the guys that are already on base?  If so, he is doing a good job of it---tied for the AL lead in RBI.  His 52 would project to 128 for a full season. 

Maybe I'm missing something here so someone set me straight.

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6 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

Why this obsession with Abreu's OBP?  Isn't his job to knock in the guys that are already on base?  If so, he is doing a good job of it---tied for the AL lead in RBI.  His 52 would project to 128 for a full season. 

Maybe I'm missing something here so someone set me straight.

His job is to more than that as a lead footed, stone gloved "1B".  He's a DH.  Doing the whole El Caballo in a down year thing of 270/300/500 with shitty defense isn't really that valuable.  Hell, Lee could take a walk better than Jose.

His BABIB will regress some there's no doubt ZIPS has him for ROS for .300 and (wait for it)... .8 fWAR for a total of a 1 fWAR season.  I wonder if ZIPS has some calculation for his batted ball data because .300 is not that big of a regression if you are looking at his exit velocity.  Statcast would seem to predict he'd see a higher BABIP:  his career is .324. 

Part of it could be defensive maneuvering as well.  Is BABIP down league wide?  

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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6 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

Why this obsession with Abreu's OBP?  Isn't his job to knock in the guys that are already on base?  If so, he is doing a good job of it---tied for the AL lead in RBI.  His 52 would project to 128 for a full season. 

Maybe I'm missing something here so someone set me straight.

We just have to accept the fact he's not a popular player. He should be one of Sox fans' all-time faves but he isn't. Vaughn is the new darling, the one to replace Abreu at 1B with somebody not named Abreu DHing in the future. If Hahn wants to trade him he might as well. He has the fans' blessing to dump him for a good prospect.

Edited by greg775

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Just now, greg775 said:

We just have to accept the fact he's not a popular player. He should be one of Sox fans' all-time faves but he isn't. Vaughn is the new darling, the one to replace Abreu at 1B with somebody not named Abreu DHing in the future.

He’s been a pretty solid player on nothing but bad teams, why would he be among anyone’s all time faves?

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2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I don't really get the undying love for Abreu on here.  He's been a really nice player for us but there is no reason to extend him more than like a year. 

Fwiw he’s probably a hair better than konerko

*ducks*

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54 minutes ago, pcq said:

My beef with Jose is that he is one of the least athletic players in the league and he doesn't seem to care about his conditioning, judging by his appearance and his movement on the field. 

Jose is fine at a price.  How much does he want to stay for 2  or 3 years vs what's he worth on the open market.  Hahn will have the answers to those questions and make an appropriate decision.  Hahn does fine in deals where he is the seller.  Not quite as good as the buyer IMO.  I'll live with his decision on this.  Same with Colome but odds are a little higher on a trade I think.

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1 hour ago, mqr said:

Fwiw he’s probably a hair better than konerko

*ducks*

Oops as longtimers will tell u, I loved Konerko as well.

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I also loved Konerko and still appreciate what Abreu brings to our lineup.  I think he still has a place on this team for a couple more seasons.  He can DH after Vaughn gets called up.  For those thinking Collins will be a better option than Abreu anytime soon I just don't see it. Collins' best tool at this point is his walk rate.  I hope I'm wrong but I think a lot of those walks in the minors will turn into strikeouts if he makes it to the show and stops facing pitchers with control issues.  Keith Law makes a similar comment towards the end of his FS podcast.

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1 hour ago, Good Guys said:

I also loved Konerko and still appreciate what Abreu brings to our lineup.  I think he still has a place on this team for a couple more seasons.  He can DH after Vaughn gets called up.  For those thinking Collins will be a better option than Abreu anytime soon I just don't see it. Collins' best tool at this point is his walk rate.  I hope I'm wrong but I think a lot of those walks in the minors will turn into strikeouts if he makes it to the show and stops facing pitchers with control issues.  Keith Law makes a similar comment towards the end of his FS podcast.

I'm not a huge fan of Collins either, but I see no reason to not give him a shot. They wasted a top 10 pick on him, might as well see what you have. 

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9 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

All star appearences and RBIs?  Really?

 

This sounds condescending.  That isn't how you meant it was it?

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On 6/11/2019 at 8:12 PM, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

 I don't get the Collins envy at all.  This is just another "we want the 1st pick to succeed".  There's nothing in him that "says we gotta bring him up soon".   As for Vaughn there's no proof how we will turn out in this organization.   He could be another injury that plagues this organization.

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7 hours ago, poppysox said:

This sounds condescending.  That isn't how you meant it was it?

I don't buy into the idea that all ideas are equal and we should appreciate non-sense arguments: in any facet of life, not just sports.  Misinfo and disinfo are a big problem and using non-sense like RBIs and ASG appearances to judge a player's future value to the club is asinine and should be ridiculed lest such ideas spread.

I'm old enough to remember the initial push-back against sabermetrics in the early aughts.  That we are STILL having to refute such non-sense to judge a player's value is disheartening.  We should be better by now. 

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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18 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Imagine for a moment being Ron and hating one of the best offensive Sox players of all time to the extent that you constantly start threads about any potential flaw in his game

 

I don't see his name very often here for one of the "best offensive players" of all time for the Sox. 

But hey he's ahead of White Sox legend "Jurassic" Carl Everett in career OPS with the club!

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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I mean, if the argument is that he's not a leader in cumulative statistics like doubles home runs, etc. because guys like Thomas and Konerko played 15 seasons with the Sox while he's played 5 and a half, I guess I can't argue that.

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3 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I mean, if the argument is that he's not a leader in cumulative statistics like doubles home runs, etc. because guys like Thomas and Konerko played 15 seasons with the Sox while he's played 5 and a half, I guess I can't argue that.

Just hasn't had the longevity and has played on bad teams.  Hard to really consider him the best of anything in Sox history.  He's beloved by many on this forum but I just can't separate my opinion of him from his performance.  He's a class act off the field, he's a "clubhouse leader" and all that but he's just a mediocre DH on the field.

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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I don't understand how his performance has been bad at any point in his career. His seasonal WARs: 5.8, 3.8, 2.7, 4.8 for first four complete seasons, and his next year he had 1.7 in a partial season that he was injured. He's getting killed on BABIP this season but is still crushing the ball in terms of XBH. I just can't really be negative about Abreu.

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50 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Just wanted to say that Jose is #1 in all of MLB with 37 barrels this season, and is #3 in all of MLB in barrels per plate appearance. 

Statcast loves the quality of his contact, he’s just has been unlucky this year.

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Love Hibbard's advanced stats about Abreu. Haters ignore Hibbard proving Abreu is not only productive to the non Sabes lovers (me, who loves his HRs and RBIs) as well as advanced stat lovers. I wish people would let Abreu be and let him be Abreu. His batting average will sink (don't know why stat lovers are looking at BA anyway) and it will go up. He knocks in a lot of runs; I'm still not sure why stat lovers hate the traditional RBI stat. It seems a sign of production to me.

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54 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Love Hibbard's advanced stats about Abreu. Haters ignore Hibbard proving Abreu is not only productive to the non Sabes lovers (me, who loves his HRs and RBIs) as well as advanced stat lovers. I wish people would let Abreu be and let him be Abreu. His batting average will sink (don't know why stat lovers are looking at BA anyway) and it will go up. He knocks in a lot of runs; I'm still not sure why stat lovers hate the traditional RBI stat. It seems a sign of production to me.

Abreu and McCann will both improve as Eloy protects them instead of an automatic out in Alonso.

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Since this thread went up, Jose is 10/17 with 2 doubles and a homer but I’m sure it’s extraordinarily concerning to Ron that he hasn’t been able to elevate his pathetic .588 batting average to a higher obp with any walks over that timeframe 

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1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Since this thread went up, Jose is 10/17 with 2 doubles and a homer but I’m sure it’s extraordinarily concerning to Ron that he hasn’t been able to elevate his pathetic .588 batting average to a higher obp with any walks over that timeframe 

Nice post! I get a kick out of seeing people pick one advanced stat and mock the traditional stats when they dislike a player. And then with Gio suddenly they cite wins and losses cause he's so good in wins and losses right now. I mean I worship Gio like Abreu, but it's funny how the advanced stat people know exactly what they are doing. Long live HRs and RBIs Mr. Abreu.

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