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And that's a Eloy Jimenez Coming Out Party White Sox Winner

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1 minute ago, mqr said:

Yeah Giolito is pitching in such a way that it looks like they only need to be serviceable. Will that continue? Idk, but it's a lot easier to envision a solid enough rotation with this version of Giolito. 

If Giolito was getting lucky, I would be inclined to fear a regression. However, there is simply nothing to suggest it. His peripherals are just as outstanding as his main numbers. 

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2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Yeah Giolito is pitching in such a way that it looks like they only need to be serviceable. Will that continue? Idk, but it's a lot easier to envision a solid enough rotation with this version of Giolito. 

And I have to keep reminding myself that Giolito is still only 24 years old!!!

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Just now, Richie said:

If Giolito was getting lucky, I would be inclined to fear a regression. However, there is simply nothing to suggest it. His peripherals are just as outstanding as his main numbers. 

Not trying to imply that he's been a fluke, it's just that pitchers are pitchers and it's hard to count on any of them. 

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Just now, wegner said:

And I have to keep reminding myself that Giolito is still only 24 years old!!!

He'll be 25 in mid-July, but for now you're correct. 

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

He'll be 25 in mid-July, but for now you're correct. 

I'll take being correct for a month and remind myself in July that he is still only 25 years old!!! :)

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1 minute ago, mqr said:

Not trying to imply that he's been a fluke, it's just that pitchers are pitchers and it's hard to count on any of them. 

No doubt. I mean, I don't think anyone here is under the impression that he's going to hold down a sub-1.00 ERA for the rest of his career. So, I should clarify that. lol. There will be SOME regression. 

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Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

Seeing Eloy making adjustments is nice.  Hopefully he continues to progress and get himself into good counts.  That is easy power off his bat.

One of the things I was noticing during Moncada's hot streak was that he was making adjustments as well. He's starting to be more selective swinging the bat early in counts. Instead of free swinging, he's only going after meatballs now which is what we wanted him to do all along. Moncada and Eloy are both about to take off into the stratosphere of superstardom. 

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3 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Seeing Eloy making adjustments is nice.  Hopefully he continues to progress and get himself into good counts.  That is easy power off his bat.

When Eloy connects...well I think Jason Benetti said it best...WOW

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2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Seeing Eloy making adjustments is nice.  Hopefully he continues to progress and get himself into good counts.  That is easy power off his bat.

He's devastating on pitches that he can get those big/long arms out and extended on. Hopefully the next step is being able to pull his hands in a little better on the inside pitch. Get that bat head through the zone a bit more efficiently. With his size/wingspan - it's no easy task. However, he's up to it. 

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2 minutes ago, wegner said:

When Eloy connects...well I think Jason Benetti said it best...WOW

I can't be the only one who is relieved that we no longer have to hear Benetti reiterating how "Eloy has yet to hit a home run at home! All on the road! Isn't that crazy!?" during 75% of his AB's. 

I'm not a Benetti hater, but man... I was waiting for Eloy to do it just so he would shutup about it already. lol

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7 minutes ago, wegner said:

When Eloy connects...well I think Jason Benetti said it best...WOW

It's going to be fun watching Eloy, Moncada and Robert launching baseballs into orbit for the next half decade. (at least) They all have LTP. Maybe Vaughn can join them, but I'd have to see it in pro ball first. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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7 hours ago, hogan873 said:

You can be the most hyperbolic poster sometimes.

Sox cannot win the division with the current team.  They need at least two more decent to good starting pitchers and another bat or two.  They are entertaining now, especially the young guys.  They have a chance to win the division and more starting next year, but they need to make some moves.  A couple smart "selling" trades at the deadline could help the future.

You make a trade like that ... you never lose your job. They don't make hitters like Eloy often. Cubs had rocks in their heads to trade that guy.

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1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I believe there is a segment of Sox fans who absolutely love to whine and complain, and are miserable when they're winning because they don't get to b**** about anything and everything. Their entire identity as a Sox fan is to b**** and complain about anything and everything, and when they're good they disappear. Note the gamethreads. When they're getting blasted there is more posting, and when they're winning the gamethread is much shorter. 

I think there's more psychology to it than that. When you are a rebuilding/tanking person, your team has a built in excuse for losing. When friends mock your team you can say, 'Ha, we are trying to lose to get a good draft pick.' There is a safety net mentally in your team trying to lose for draft picks. Wait til next year is a powerful mantra. And when you are trying to lose ... there's no pressure on you to care about your team fighting and clawing its way to a pennant. No games matter. Just the draft pick. I think it's mental, folks. Tanking gives a fan the right to not sweat out the day to day battles of a marathon season. And then the plan is to ultimately have a team so good you just cruise to the pennant. Hard work not needed. Talent prevailing.

Edited by greg775

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1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I believe there is a segment of Sox fans who absolutely love to whine and complain, and are miserable when they're winning because they don't get to b**** about anything and everything. Their entire identity as a Sox fan is to b**** and complain about anything and everything, and when they're good they disappear. Note the gamethreads. When they're getting blasted there is more posting, and when they're winning the gamethread is much shorter. 

Maybe because that is what fans expect their team to do? Actually win games...

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2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Maybe because that is what fans expect their team to do? Actually win games...

Why would people make more posts when their team is losing rather than winning? 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Why would people make more posts when their team is losing rather than winning? 

Because they EXPECT their team to win and when they don't, especially if they don't bother to show up or play as fundamentally sound as a bad Little League team they are going to vent. Just my opinion on that.

I mean these are professionals...they are paid to win. That's what they should be doing. So when they do it's like, "OK they won...great...that's what they should be doing..."

Again just a guess here.

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16 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Because they EXPECT their team to win and when they don't, especially if they don't bother to show up or play as fundamentally sound as a bad Little League team they are going to vent. Just my opinion on that.

I mean these are professionals...they are paid to win. That's what they should be doing. So when they do it's like, "OK they won...great...that's what they should be doing..."

Again just a guess here.

I don't think that expecting your team to win is a reasonable expectation. Windows and winning are rare, if anyone should know that it is Chicago baseball fans who have seen a combined 2 world series in 210+ seasons. You should watch baseball (and sports) because you enjoy the game, not because you expect to win. If all fans did was expect to win, the entire fandom of sports would be transient and follow whomever has the best team in any given season. 

Do I want my team to win? Sure. Do I expect them to win a championship each and every season? Absolutely not. 

In baseball, even expecting your team to make the playoffs annually is unreasonable, IMO. It is the most exclusive playoff in sports. 

The most you can ask for in a reasonable world is a 3 year window and anything more is gravy. 

There will probably be a run like the Bulls and Blackhawks had once every 3 decades, and that is if you consider all 4 major sports. 

Look at the Cubs, they're probably only going to get 1 championship out of their run and they've been pretty damn good. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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44 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I think there's more psychology to it than that. When you are a rebuilding/tanking person, your team has a built in excuse for losing. When friends mock your team you can say, 'Ha, we are trying to lose to get a good draft pick.' There is a safety net mentally in your team trying to lose for draft picks. Wait til next year is a powerful mantra. And when you are trying to lose ... there's no pressure on you to care about your team fighting and clawing its way to a pennant. No games matter. Just the draft pick. I think it's mental, folks. Tanking gives a fan the right to not sweat out the day to day battles of a marathon season. And then the plan is to ultimately have a team so good you just cruise to the pennant. Hard work not needed. Talent prevailing.

Players would likely never make the excuse you listed as they are some of the most competitive people on the planet.

No player says yeah, we suck but we're not even trying to win!

Dont confuse front office goals or plans with players goals and plans.

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20 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Because they EXPECT their team to win and when they don't, especially if they don't bother to show up or play as fundamentally sound as a bad Little League team they are going to vent. Just my opinion on that.

I mean these are professionals...they are paid to win. That's what they should be doing. So when they do it's like, "OK they won...great...that's what they should be doing..."

Again just a guess here.

They're paid to produce and give max effort, not to win. There is a massive difference.

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6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They're paid to produce and give max effort, not to win. There is a massive difference.

There's a huge disconnect between the younger folk and the old timers. The old timers think that if the team doesn't win, you shouldn't get paid. They think players are paid to win, and production is empty if it doesn't lead to winning. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Why would people make more posts when their team is losing rather than winning? 

I think that is because people have somewhere to vent with other Sox fans here at SoxTalk, especially during a game thread when something frustrating happens....Like Alonso coming to the plate :cool:

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3 minutes ago, wegner said:

I think that is because people have somewhere to vent with other Sox fans here at SoxTalk, especially during a game thread when something frustrating happens....Like Alonso coming to the plate :cool:

It's the message board culture - you are much more likely to respond to a post you disagree with than one you agree with... why? Because it's pointless to reiterate someone elses point immediately after they presented it. On the other hand, discussions and knowledge gains tend to stem from disagreements. 

People feel more driven to respond to something they dont agree with. Theres nothing wrong with it, but its why it happens.

People would rather tell you why they disagree or are upset with something than the opposite.

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12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

There's a huge disconnect between the younger folk and the old timers. The old timers think that if the team doesn't win, you shouldn't get paid. They think players are paid to win, and production is empty if it doesn't lead to winning. 

Dont make generalities because one person views it that way. While my age is not the same as his, you've never heard utter anything close to that.

However, if you want to generalize should I say that based on your comments young people think they should get paid regardless of results? It's the everyone gets a trophy generation where they expect to be paid regardless if they get results. At least I tried. Does that generalization work for you?

Edited by ptatc

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10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Dont make generalities because one person views it that way. While my age is not the same as his, you've never heard utter anything close to that.

However, if you want to generalize should I say that based on your comments young people think they should get paid regardless of results? It's the everyone gets a trophy generation where they expect to be paid regardless if they get results. At least I tried. Does that generalization work for you?

The participation trophy knock always cracks me up because it was actually the boomers who wouldnt stop crying that their kids didnt get a reward that created that culture. 10 year old kids were not demanding trophies. 

That said, the boomer generation also has had no issues giving absurdly big bonuses to countless executives who have driven companies into the ground... my favorite thing in my finance life is hearing the excuses for giving out these massive bonuses to executives at companies who are hemorrhaging money and cutting labor. Its comical and so widespread it hurts.

That said, I agree with you that generalizations are poor and people should be judged individually. I just think the "millenials or lazy or privileged" cliche is absolutely absurd. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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