Richie Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, mqr said: It has less to do with the recovery than it has to do with still Kopech ultimately being an unknown, PLUS coming off surgery. Let's say Kopech came into 2019 healthy. If the Sox had designs of competing, penciling Kopech in at the number two or three spot still could be a recipe for disaster. Now add in, say, a 10% chance he doesn't come back right from surgery on top of all that and now competing and going into the season with Kopech as your #2 or #3 starter are likely mutually exclusive ideas. Maybe he comes back and is immediately a horse. Well, then great. Now you have extra depth. But you absolutely cannot count on that. He is unknown, but damn if he didn't look sharp in his three outings which preceded the Detroit/injury game. I know, I know... horrendously small sample size and that's a homer viewpoint. I think you have to count on him falling into the #3/#4 range, though. Do we have a choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Richie said: He is unknown, but damn if he didn't look sharp in his three outings which preceded the Detroit/injury game. I know, I know... horrendously small sample size and that's a homer viewpoint. I think you have to count on him falling into the #3/#4 range, though. Do we have a choice? Well you hope Cease + an acquisition or two allows you to slot him 4/5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: Most athletes will tell you it takes about 18 months to feel "normal " again after these types of surgeries. They can play as early as 9 months post surgery but it's not quite normal. They prevailing theory is that the smaller nerves can heal for roughly that amount of time. This extra time isn't too big of a deal for an offensive lineman but for a pitcher who needs such fine detail for mechanics, it can take that long to really get going again. Yeah, I had labrum surgery in college ball. Totally different thing, though. The two pitchers I played with who had TJ felt good after a year or so... and it seems like the majority of big leaguers say the same. I guess I'm just going off of what I've heard. My sister is an orthopedic surgeon, but I sure as hell ain't. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: Well you hope Cease + an acquisition or two allows you to slot him 4/5 I guess that depends on where Cease is at in his development. I might be a bit more skeptical than a lot of people on him right now. I don't think he's this "ready to succeed, big league pitcher" that 90% of this board seems to believe he is currently. I think he's close, but people seem to ignore his issues in Charlotte simply due to the fact that Despaigne, Banuelos, etc. have been so bad. He would have to come up and at least post respectable numbers in order to garner a spot ahead of Kopech in the rotation. We should see him in the 2nd half of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitown87 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, ptatc said: Most athletes will tell you it takes about 18 months to feel "normal " again after these types of surgeries. They can play as early as 9 months post surgery but it's not quite normal. They prevailing theory is that the smaller nerves can heal for roughly that amount of time. This extra time isn't too big of a deal for an offensive lineman but for a pitcher who needs such fine detail for mechanics, it can take that long to really get going again. Fortunately, 18 months put Kopech right at Spring training or thereabouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Chisox378 said: We are 5 games back of the Wild Card, its still not the All Star Break. No Joke! 😃 By the end of this week it'll be seven or eight back. Done and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, OneDog847 said: I'm highly skeptical that Kopech will ready to go on opening day 2020. Zach Burdi is almost two years removed from Tommy John and the guy can barely pitch more than two innings a week. Kopech is the only guy who will be back from TJ in 2020. I don't think Dunning or Rodon will be able to go until 2021. The Sox said both Rodon (second half) and Dunning could be available to pitch next year. Will they? Better guess is with Rodon, Dunning doesn't have a whole hell of a lot of experience. On paper next year's rotation (for better or worse) looks like the following: Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, Cease, FA signee with Rodon and/or Dunning waiting in the wings. Certainly looks better than the disaster for this year but still a lot of question marks. Would feel better if they signed two good FA pitchers, then if everyone comes back healthy and strong you've got great trading strength at the deadline for someplace else that you need. Edited June 24, 2019 by Lip Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, Richie said: Yeah, I had labrum surgery in college ball. Totally different thing, though. The two pitchers I played with who had TJ felt good after a year or so... and it seems like the majority of big leaguers say the same. I guess I'm just going off of what I've heard. My sister is an orthopedic surgeon, but I sure as hell ain't. lol Yeah, they usually feel good at somewhere between 9-12 months. It's the feeling all the way back to normal that is the variable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) Sox have to roll double 6s for Rodon, Kopech and Dunning to all hit. But that has a better chance of happening than Rick Hahn making a value trade for a veteran pitcher that doesn't burn the Sox on one end, if not both. As for Jay, I don't get the point, but I suppose they could flip him if things go well. Edited June 24, 2019 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Richie said: He is unknown, but damn if he didn't look sharp in his three outings which preceded the Detroit/injury game. I know, I know... horrendously small sample size and that's a homer viewpoint. I think you have to count on him falling into the #3/#4 range, though. Do we have a choice? My worry with Kopech is that in both 2017 and 2018 it took him until the 2nd half of the season to find some adequate control and really "break out" at the level he was at. I'm confident he'll be healthy enough to pitch, I'm more worried about where he'll be on his stuff and control. That said, you absolutely put him in the rotation as soon as he's physically there. Yes you add 2 pitching options this offseason, but Kopech's a guy we have to put out there, sometime early next year at the latest. What he brings to this team and this rotation is essentially irreplaceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 hours ago, TomPickle said: That would be pretty shady. They'd have to remove him from the 60 day IL and then demote him to AAA instead of him going there as part of a rehab assignment. Sending Kopech, who has a grand total of 14.1 major league innings under his belt, to AAA to shake the rust off after getting elbow reconstruction surgery is the furthest thing from “shady”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Honestly, it a perfect world we sign two free agent starters (for now let’s say Wheeler & Wood). The rotation to start 2019 would then be the following: Giolito Wheeler Cease Wood* Lopez Then sometime in May (once we get a year back on control and some rust has been worn off), Kopech comes up and likely replaces Lopez (who goes to the pen or optioned to Charlotte). At some point, Rodon & Dunning should be back. While Dane can’t be counted on to fill a major league role in 2020, Carlos can potentially be a factor if we make a playoff push and need an arm to replace Cease or Kopech late in the season. Been tooting this horn for a long time. Cept I’m dreaming bigger with Cole and Wood. Though there are definitely other LHP I would welcome instead of Wood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Been tooting this horn for a long time. Cept I’m dreaming bigger with Cole and Wood. Though there are definitely other LHP I would welcome instead of Wood. Trust me, I’d kill for Cole. He’s definitely the guy we should be prioritizing above all else. Just worried Reinsdorf will have a hard limit on years that will prevent us from being competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Trust me, I’d kill for Cole. He’s definitely the guy we should be prioritizing above all else. Just worried Reinsdorf will have a hard limit on years that will prevent us from being competitive. What’s the most recent starting pitcher signing closest to the age and quality of Cole? Patrick Corbin last year? He isn’t even as good as Cole and he still signed for 6-years and $140 million. You are probably right to question the chances of signing Cole. Reinsdorf likely won’t allow Hahn to sign a pitcher for those many years or that many millions. Ozuna has a much better chance of happening than Cole, and I am not optimistic on Ozuna either. Edited June 25, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said: What’s the most recent starting pitcher signing closest to the age and quality of Cole? Patrick Corbin last year? He isn’t even as good as Cole and he still signed for 6-years and $140 million. You are probably right to question the chances of signing Cole. Reinsdorf likely won’t allow Hahn to sign a pitcher for those many years or that many millions. Ozuna has a much better chance of happening than Cole, and I am not optimistic on Ozuna either. I think Cole is going to start with Corbin's deal and go from there, which unfortunately removes the Sox from even having any remote chance. If they end up with a starter it's going to be a Tier B starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) All you need to know about Jon Jay is most of the posts in this thread named after him are not about him, nyuk nyuk. Mr. Jay should be nicknamed "Mr. Irrelevant." p.s. I have nothing against the man; he's supposed to be a nice guy. I just see no need for him on the south side since we never signed his pal. Trade him to San Diego or Tampa for a couple thousand bucks that JR can gift to his grandkids on trips to the lake this summer. Edited June 25, 2019 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 9 hours ago, greg775 said: All you need to know about Jon Jay is most of the posts in this thread named after him are not about him, nyuk nyuk. Mr. Jay should be nicknamed "Mr. Irrelevant." p.s. I have nothing against the man; he's supposed to be a nice guy. I just see no need for him on the south side since we never signed his pal. Trade him to San Diego or Tampa for a couple thousand bucks that JR can gift to his grandkids on trips to the lake this summer. We have no need for Jay in any long term plan but he does make us a better team for the tonight game...if that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, poppysox said: We have no need for Jay in any long term plan but he does make us a better team for the tonight game...if that matters. Thinking about it, he might be their best option at the leadoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Thinking about it, he might be their best option at the leadoff spot. He's gotten a bad rap because of the off season nonsense...in reality he can be a useful player on many teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Jon Jay may be a useful player, but I do not remember a player with more apathy about in the recent history of the White Sox. Jon Jay has been reinstated...meh. Even someone like Despaigne got a better reaction when he was called up, although that reaction was generally "who?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, poppysox said: He's gotten a bad rap because of the off season nonsense...in reality he can be a useful player on many teams. Not on the White Sox in a rebuilding situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 58 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Not on the White Sox in a rebuilding situation. Yeah, I think that point has been stated many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 21 hours ago, Richie said: Because Leury is the future CF of our contending window...??? And calling Abreu a bum is hyperbole at its finest. I just saw this now but this was posted last night and Moncada wasn't between Garcia and Abreu last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 So far so good. Nice to have him in the lineup so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 If Jay hits anywhere near his career averages he's adequate in RF for the remainder of the season. I fear CF starts are coming though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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