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Eloy Jiménez

2019-2020 Official NBA Thread

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I haven't felt compelled to post in a while, but holy crap has this issue pissed me off.

Are we not all pro-democracy/anti-communist human rights violators? How could there be any political disagreement on this one?

I cannot believe how the NBA responded to this and it's really, REALLY soured me as a fan. They take away an All-Star game over a stupid bathroom bill, but when a GM simply retweets something in support of a PRO-DEMOCRACY movement against a communist dictatorship (on Twitter....a platform already banned in China!), they go all def con 4 and try to shut it all down. They force Morey to apologize. They force James Harden to apologize. Steve Kerr, one of the most outspoken faces of the league on every political issue of the day, suddenly has no comment or anything to say? Are you fucking kidding me? 

Adam Silver tried to clean up the mess yesterday with a new statement today (too late) and SHOCKINGLY China responds by saying that criticizing their government is not freedom of expression and so they're still not going to show any NBA pre-season games and may not show any regular season games either. In other words, bend the knee or else. 

The NBA (and Hollywood...kudos to South Park for a great episode on this btw) better take a stand here. If not they lost a consumer here. Edit: and I hope others follow.

 

Edited by Jenksismyhero

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1 hour ago, Jenksismyhero said:

I haven't felt compelled to post in a while, but holy crap has this issue pissed me off.

Are we not all pro-democracy/anti-communist human rights violators? How could there be any political disagreement on this one?

I cannot believe how the NBA responded to this and it's really, REALLY soured me as a fan. They take away an All-Star game over a stupid bathroom bill, but when a GM simply retweets something in support of a PRO-DEMOCRACY movement against a communist dictatorship (on Twitter....a platform already banned in China!), they go all def con 4 and try to shut it all down. They force Morey to apologize. They force James Harden to apologize. Steve Kerr, one of the most outspoken faces of the league on every political issue of the day, suddenly has no comment or anything to say? Are you fucking kidding me? 

Adam Silver tried to clean up the mess yesterday with a new statement today (too late) and SHOCKINGLY China responds by saying that criticizing their government is not freedom of expression and so they're still not going to show any NBA pre-season games and may not show any regular season games either. In other words, bend the knee or else. 

The NBA (and Hollywood...kudos to South Park for a great episode on this btw) better take a stand here. If not they lost a consumer here. Edit: and I hope others follow.

 

And, quite frankly, the government is long past due for standing up for Hong Kong. Much more than the NBA or Hollywood.

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1 hour ago, Jenksismyhero said:

I haven't felt compelled to post in a while, but holy crap has this issue pissed me off.

Are we not all pro-democracy/anti-communist human rights violators? How could there be any political disagreement on this one?

I cannot believe how the NBA responded to this and it's really, REALLY soured me as a fan. They take away an All-Star game over a stupid bathroom bill, but when a GM simply retweets something in support of a PRO-DEMOCRACY movement against a communist dictatorship (on Twitter....a platform already banned in China!), they go all def con 4 and try to shut it all down. They force Morey to apologize. They force James Harden to apologize. Steve Kerr, one of the most outspoken faces of the league on every political issue of the day, suddenly has no comment or anything to say? Are you fucking kidding me? 

Adam Silver tried to clean up the mess yesterday with a new statement today (too late) and SHOCKINGLY China responds by saying that criticizing their government is not freedom of expression and so they're still not going to show any NBA pre-season games and may not show any regular season games either. In other words, bend the knee or else. 

The NBA (and Hollywood...kudos to South Park for a great episode on this btw) better take a stand here. If not they lost a consumer here. Edit: and I hope others follow.

 

The NBA is like everyone else. When it comes down to a boatload of money their strong stance will start to become a "well let's see what we can talk about here."

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I have to say that while I initially was upset with way NBA handled it, at this point it may turn out they may very well have worked behind scenes to prevent brash firing of Morey, then after a way-too coddling press release, silver puts out the press release affirming nba staff and players rights to expression. China says that's not allowed for China, and to this point Silver is saying they will live with the consequences.

We'll see what happens next. The idea of china continuing to dictate what stands individual Americans can take (on media not even accessible in china) for access to their market is absurd, and I would hope there can be some solidarity shown by other companies  if NBA really starts getting restricted, but I won't hold my breath.

This is easy for me to say, but yeah, if nba players/coaches aren't going to be able to criticize anything in china without the chinese government intervening then: https://slate.com/culture/2019/10/china-houston-rockets-nba-controversy.html

While I support players ability to get their fair share of the wealth that accumulates in the NBA, I don't particularly care if they are 50 millionaires or 100 millionaires, and so yeah I'd really hope we see some stand up here for what is right. That said, I get why this would be scary. If it was a player that stepped in it you'd have the players union, because it was Morey it makes it all pretty crazy.

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There is really no way to approach this topic without this thread going off the rails. But right now China is emboldened, they are taking advantage of the fractures in the US. 

NBA could live without being in China, but that is potentially throwing away huge money. I just dont see owners caring that much about free speech. 

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32 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

There is really no way to approach this topic without this thread going off the rails. But right now China is emboldened, they are taking advantage of the fractures in the US. 

NBA could live without being in China, but that is potentially throwing away huge money. I just dont see owners caring that much about free speech. 

They won’t, if they can square the circle they will. But it’s why equal pressure in US will help.

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52 minutes ago, bmags said:

They won’t, if they can square the circle they will. But it’s why equal pressure in US will help.

Pressure how exactly?

Finish this idea "If you dont play NBA games on TV we will...."

Thats the problem there is no pressure, The big entertainment companies arent going to come help the NBA, they have spent years cultivating relationships with China to get into the market. 

The only real option is either to give in or go the South Park route. I have no belief that an organization run by billionaires is going to go the South Park route, even if I think that is the most successful option available.

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10 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Pressure how exactly?

Finish this idea "If you dont play NBA games on TV we will...."

Thats the problem there is no pressure, The big entertainment companies arent going to come help the NBA, they have spent years cultivating relationships with China to get into the market. 

The only real option is either to give in or go the South Park route. I have no belief that an organization run by billionaires is going to go the South Park route, even if I think that is the most successful option available.

No, equal pressure from US (i.e. NBA fans, government, public pressure) that acquiescing also may have consequences. Their TNT/ESPN deal was 24 billion to 2024/25. Do you want to try and make up that revenue by growing an a market that you could lose with a tweet from one of your many outspoken athletes (that is part of your brand) or try to protect the US market and try to expand in places with less restrictive governments?

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

No, equal pressure from US (i.e. NBA fans, government, public pressure) that acquiescing also may have consequences. Their TNT/ESPN deal was 24 billion to 2024/25. Do you want to try and make up that revenue by growing an a market that you could lose with a tweet from one of your many outspoken athletes (that is part of your brand) or try to protect the US market and try to expand in places with less restrictive governments?

 

The govt is useless, any type of pressure they could have exerted has been lost the last year. Fans? The NFL got itself in a bad spot with freedom of speech and quickly realized no matter what side they took it was bad for business.

The last thing anyone wants is turmoil. Players couldnt even make a difference for Kaepernick, you think that they can make some significant change in China? Im sure that (insert brand here) already has their people telling megastars not to get involved. Its one thing for Nike to support Kaepernick, but no way are they going to risk the entire China market over a Lebron tweet.

If you want to beat change China, it will take a well implemented plan. Right now the US is a complete shit show and every other country knows it. 

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2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

 

The govt is useless, any type of pressure they could have exerted has been lost the last year. Fans? The NFL got itself in a bad spot with freedom of speech and quickly realized no matter what side they took it was bad for business.

The last thing anyone wants is turmoil. Players couldnt even make a difference for Kaepernick, you think that they can make some significant change in China? Im sure that (insert brand here) already has their people telling megastars not to get involved. Its one thing for Nike to support Kaepernick, but no way are they going to risk the entire China market over a Lebron tweet.

If you want to beat change China, it will take a well implemented plan. Right now the US is a complete shit show and every other country knows it. 

The NFL wasn't between two different countries, it was within the US, the response to this has been largely bi-partisan. I agree it needs to be well coordinated, but as it stands the US is the one with the large trade deficit which is the side you'd want to be on.

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2 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

There is really no way to approach this topic without this thread going off the rails. But right now China is emboldened, they are taking advantage of the fractures in the US. 

NBA could live without being in China, but that is potentially throwing away huge money. I just dont see owners caring that much about free speech. 

Especially with historically outspoken coaches such as Kerr not willing to speak about it.

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37 minutes ago, bmags said:

The NFL wasn't between two different countries, it was within the US, the response to this has been largely bi-partisan. I agree it needs to be well coordinated, but as it stands the US is the one with the large trade deficit which is the side you'd want to be on.

 

I think for the NBA the side you want to be on is the one where you can make the most money. The amount of fans who are going to care about this in the US is likely negligible. But you are possibly losing access to millions of fans in China. Trade deficit has no relevance on that front. Maybe in a different era the US govt could try and intervene and protect the NBA / free speech, but the US already dug its heels in against China. Maybe we can threaten really hard? Maybe well ban Chinese products from being sold in the US?

A country with citizens who have freedom will always face a challenge against a totalitarian regime. The US govt just cant simply turn off the station. 

 

35 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Especially with historically outspoken coaches such as Kerr not willing to speak about it.

Thankfully the US hasnt gotten to the point where if you insult the govt they turn off the TV. Though it sadly seems we are getting closer to it. 

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On 10/6/2019 at 11:48 PM, SoxAce said:

Unless they suffer their usual injuries, I actually disagree with this. The Bulls will be a very interesting young team to watch when healthy. Do I expect them to be one of the top teams? Absolutely not, but the road in the East to make the playoffs isn't nearly as daunting anymore with guys like LeBron, Kawhi, etc. all out West now. Durant is out for the season so the Nets won't be much of a threat yet with just Kyrie. It's basically Philly, Milwaukee and a whole bunch of meh in the East. I can see the Bulls challenging for a bottom seed.

Meh.  As much as I hope and pray that Lauri or Lavine develops into an actual star, I'm not gonna hold my breath.  It's a superstar league.  Sox aren't the only team reinsdorf shoots for second place with.  I'm ok with not filling up his pockets anymore so he can be buried with his millions as he continues to trot out an intentionally inferior product.  

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3 minutes ago, SleepyWhiteSox said:

Meh.  As much as I hope and pray that Lauri or Lavine develops into an actual star, I'm not gonna hold my breath.  It's a superstar league.  Sox aren't the only team reinsdorf shoots for second place with.

My point is the East is very weak. You need a superstar to be a perennial contender, not to necessarily make the playoffs. The Bulls can absolutely make the playoffs as a bottom seed. And yea that's probably good enough for Reinsdorf. 

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It's preseason but tonight's game will be an interesting watch. Bulls face the Pelicans and will get a first hand look at Zion, Lonzo and company. 

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1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

It's preseason but tonight's game will be an interesting watch. Bulls face the Pelicans and will get a first hand look at Zion, Lonzo and company. 

And Lonzo Balls improved form. I still think if Ball stays healthy, he turns into an elite player.  

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I'll be at the game tonight. Really interested to see Lonzo & Zion on the Pels side and Coby White for the Bulls.

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16 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think White looks great

Been a very impressive preseason by him to start. 

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10 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Kris Dunn is still bad.

Felicio is worse. I'd honestly rather see if Shittu is worth throwing a 2-way deal at at this point.

But other takeaways:

- Gafford has the motor of young Taj

- White is so ungodly fast and he had one layup that looked like vintage Rose.

- Thad, Sato, Kornet, and (a full season of) Otto makes this team leaps and bounds better and smarter. It's like night and day.

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1 minute ago, Quin said:

Felicio is worse. I'd honestly rather see if Shittu is worth throwing a 2-way deal at at this point.

But other takeaways:

- Gafford has the motor of young Taj

- White is so ungodly fast and he had one layup that looked like vintage Rose.

- Thad, Sato, Kornet, and (a full season of) Otto makes this team leaps and bounds better and smarter. It's like night and day.

Big reasons why I’m so excited to have some great vets on the team finally.

White and Garfield looked SO much better when mixed in with Porter and young - then looked terrible when paired with Dunn and felicio to close.

Reminds me of having WCJ needing to “learn” with Jabari and Lavine on the same floor.

The second line now is very respectable

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24 minutes ago, bmags said:

Big reasons why I’m so excited to have some great vets on the team finally.

White and Garfield looked SO much better when mixed in with Porter and young - then looked terrible when paired with Dunn and felicio to close.

Reminds me of having WCJ needing to “learn” with Jabari and Lavine on the same floor.

The second line now is very respectable

I didn't even consider how Carter will look with the vets around him. 

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