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The only reason we are even discussing Collins to this length is because he is a number 1 draft pick.  If he were a 10th rounder, he would be stuck behind Yermin.

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8 minutes ago, oldsox said:

The only reason we are even discussing Collins to this length is because he is a number 1 draft pick.  If he were a 10th rounder, he would be stuck behind Yermin.

To an extent your right, but Mercedes was a nobody until like 5 seconds ago, and probably is a nobody anyway. 

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9 minutes ago, oldsox said:

The only reason we are even discussing Collins to this length is because he is a number 1 draft pick.  If he were a 10th rounder, he would be stuck behind Yermin.

winner winner chicken dinner

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I didn't mind Detwiler as a starter, relatively speaking on this staff, for one reason:  he wasn't walking batters.  

As for Mercedes, he spent a year in Winston Salem with an OPS of .840.  He spends the first half of next season in Birmingham with an OPS of .886.  He spends 14 games sin Charlotte with an OPS of 1.085.  If nothing else he's trending the correct direction.

Edited by GreenSox

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1 hour ago, oldsox said:

The only reason we are even discussing Collins to this length is because he is a number 1 draft pick.  If he were a 10th rounder, he would be stuck behind Yermin.

True. However, good drafting and development is a key ingredient in any successful rebuild. 

If Collins can't get playing time now during a tank year, when is he ever going to get it? 

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1 hour ago, oldsox said:

The only reason we are even discussing Collins to this length is because he is a number 1 draft pick.  If he were a 10th rounder, he would be stuck behind Yermin.

 

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

winner winner chicken dinner

I know that some people will never enjoy Collins' style but that doesn't mean we should say dumb shit. Collins was a #1 draft pick and deserved to be a #1 draft pick. He's a 24-year-old who has big raw power and plus plate discipline. He also doesn't really have anything left to prove in the minors. 151 wRC+ in 2016 in A+, 166 wRC+ in AA in 2017 after posting a 130 wRC+ in A+. 128 wRC+ with a .363 wOBA in 2018 playing his home games in Birmingham. He had a .364 wOBA and 115 wRC+ with 9 homers in Charlotte prior to his promotion to the big leagues. Collins has never had a walk rate lower than 18% in the minor leagues.

I understand not thinking the profile will work in the majors. I understand not liking the appearance of what is a 3 true outcome performer. What I'll never understand is this Yermin Mercedes thing. He can hit. He's 26, has a terrible body and isn't a catcher as well. When Yermin Mercedes goes to sleep at night, he doesn't even reach Zack Collins' defensive capabilities in his very best dreams. Mercedes is a fun player to have in the system because he hits massive dingers and dingers are fun. He's a DH at the most though and almost definitely just an org guy for the White Sox. 

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Collins is just a body who is filing a spot and waiting for a chance to play. Not worthy of a poster on your ceiling.

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6 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

I know that some people will never enjoy Collins' style but that doesn't mean we should say dumb shit. Collins was a #1 draft pick and deserved to be a #1 draft pick. He's a 24-year-old who has big raw power and plus plate discipline. He also doesn't really have anything left to prove in the minors. 151 wRC+ in 2016 in A+, 166 wRC+ in AA in 2017 after posting a 130 wRC+ in A+. 128 wRC+ with a .363 wOBA in 2018 playing his home games in Birmingham. He had a .364 wOBA and 115 wRC+ with 9 homers in Charlotte prior to his promotion to the big leagues. Collins has never had a walk rate lower than 18% in the minor leagues.

I understand not thinking the profile will work in the majors. I understand not liking the appearance of what is a 3 true outcome performer. What I'll never understand is this Yermin Mercedes thing. He can hit. He's 26, has a terrible body and isn't a catcher as well. When Yermin Mercedes goes to sleep at night, he doesn't even reach Zack Collins' defensive capabilities in his very best dreams. Mercedes is a fun player to have in the system because he hits massive dingers and dingers are fun. He's a DH at the most though and almost definitely just an org guy for the White Sox. 

This!!!

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I just saw Yermin score on one of Robert’s hits and I agree with Y2Jimmy0.  Dude is a fat slob and will be lucky to make the majors in his current state.

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8 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

I know that some people will never enjoy Collins' style but that doesn't mean we should say dumb shit. Collins was a #1 draft pick and deserved to be a #1 draft pick. He's a 24-year-old who has big raw power and plus plate discipline. He also doesn't really have anything left to prove in the minors. 151 wRC+ in 2016 in A+, 166 wRC+ in AA in 2017 after posting a 130 wRC+ in A+. 128 wRC+ with a .363 wOBA in 2018 playing his home games in Birmingham. He had a .364 wOBA and 115 wRC+ with 9 homers in Charlotte prior to his promotion to the big leagues. Collins has never had a walk rate lower than 18% in the minor leagues.

I understand not thinking the profile will work in the majors. I understand not liking the appearance of what is a 3 true outcome performer. What I'll never understand is this Yermin Mercedes thing. He can hit. He's 26, has a terrible body and isn't a catcher as well. When Yermin Mercedes goes to sleep at night, he doesn't even reach Zack Collins' defensive capabilities in his very best dreams. Mercedes is a fun player to have in the system because he hits massive dingers and dingers are fun. He's a DH at the most though and almost definitely just an org guy for the White Sox. 

I have no issues with 3 outcome players. I'm just very skeptical Collins can pull off being an MLB player. 

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No reason to blast Collins yet. He's been used poorly by Ricky and Hahn. Get him regular at bats or do him a favor and trade him. He's definitely ready. If we are in love with McCann frankly we don't need Collins. Even though McCann is sensational if we don't trade Collins maybe we play Collins 3 days a week; McCann 4.

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4 hours ago, greg775 said:

Get him regular at bats or do him a favor and trade him.

I hate when people suggest the ole “do him a favor” because a player isn’t given an ideal rope on day one.  Teams don’t win World Series by eliminating all their depth so certain guys get more playing time.

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18 hours ago, oldsox said:

The only reason we are even discussing Collins to this length is because he is a number 1 draft pick.  If he were a 10th rounder, he would be stuck behind Yermin.

Agree or better still he would not have been promoted. 

 

Edited by SCCWS

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11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I have no issues with 3 outcome players. I'm just very skeptical Collins can pull off being an MLB player. 

Do you think he's similar to Yermin Mercedes because that's what you implied? 

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19 hours ago, pcq said:

Collins is just a body who is filing a spot and waiting for a chance to play. Not worthy of a poster on your ceiling.

I'm shocked so many are giving up on Collins after a few mlb games. He should be sent back to AAA to get regular at bats, but he could still turn out to be a solid player. 

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14 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I'm shocked so many are giving up on Collins after a few mlb games. He should be sent back to AAA to get regular at bats, but he could still turn out to be a solid player. 

Collins has close to 1400 minor league at bats. He should be getting regular at bats right now in the Show during a tank year. 

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Surely somebody has asked Ricky about Collins' role. What is his role right now? If we didn't have McCann I think everybody would be more hopeful about Collins.

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2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Do you think he's similar to Yermin Mercedes because that's what you implied? 

No, Mercedes has shown more ability with the bat in the Minors than Collins ever has. 

His career line in the minors is: .302/.365/.847

Collins: .234/.378/.812

I'm a firm believer that OBP is OBP. It doesn't matter whether or not it comes by walks or hits, it just matters that you don't make outs. That being said, I weigh BA, OBP and SLG because you can get more than one base by getting XBH. 

2 things: 

A walk only scores a run when the bases are loaded, otherwise you have to get a hit

You can get more than one base with a hit. Out of all of the ways to get on base, a walk or HBP is the least valuable. Even a K on a WP and reaching is more valuable because other baserunners can advance and score on that play. 

It is a weird point of view, but it is mine. I put more weight on a hit vs a walk or HBP. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

No, Mercedes has shown more ability with the bat in the Minors than Collins ever has. 

His career line in the minors is: .302/.365/.847

Collins: .234/.378/.812

I'm a firm believer that OBP is OBP. It doesn't matter whether or not it comes by walks or hits, it just matters that you don't make outs. That being said, I weigh BA, OBP and SLG because you can get more than one base by getting XBH. 

2 things: 

A walk only scores a run when the bases are loaded, otherwise you have to get a hit

You can get more than one base with a hit. Out of all of the ways to get on base, a walk or HBP is the least valuable. Even a K on a WP and reaching is more valuable because other baserunners can advance and score on that play. 

It is a weird point of view, but it is mine. I put more weight on a hit vs a walk or HBP. 

I believe Tom Tango parsed out that a hit is worth about 10% more on average towards a run than a walk.  It's really not much but it does add over 600 PA.  That said, not making an out however you manage it is vastly more important.

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I believe Tom Tango parsed out that a hit is worth about 10% more on average towards a run than a walk.  It's really not much but it does add over 600 PA.

I'd believe it with a single, but not an XBH.

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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd believe it with a single, but not an XBH.

correct, it was on a base hit.  Obviously a double is worth more and so on.

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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