poppysox Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Robert already got $26 million guaranteed from the Sox, much more than first round draft picks. He has no incentive to sign a contract until he he a free agent. This is past the issue of money since both Robert and JR both have plenty of that. It's about control since both parties would obviously want Robert on the Sox now. I'm suggesting both sides would gain by agreeing to the actual dollar and cents value of the less than 3 month issue. Both sides can hold their collective breath until approximately the end of next April but it's rather childish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: I think the poster means a deal where he can come up this year, and we would have him for 7 years becoming a free agent the same year as he would if he came up mid-April 2020. He might sacrifice some money by avoiding arbitration though. Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 46 minutes ago, steveno89 said: This has been beaten to death, but the additional season of prime Robert control is too important to waste on a non-competitive season. The front office has to both manage the short, medium and long term outlook of the club. Robert has the potential to be a star, you absolutely need to gain the additional year of control. So are you saying next year is a non competitive season? Because we can blow a year where we can win our division by keeping him and Magical down until mid April in Hope's that the 2026 season will be a good one. If our front office does their jobs correctly, we will be fine in 2026 and have the ability to re-sign him, or even give him an extension earlier on. If our front office doesn't do their jobs, 2026 won't matter, and Robert may be gone anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 53 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: So are you saying next year is a non competitive season? Because we can blow a year where we can win our division by keeping him and Magical down until mid April in Hope's that the 2026 season will be a good one. If our front office does their jobs correctly, we will be fine in 2026 and have the ability to re-sign him, or even give him an extension earlier on. If our front office doesn't do their jobs, 2026 won't matter, and Robert may be gone anyway. They better hope an extra year with Robert/Madrigal is worth losing a possibly competitive one with Moncada and Giolito in 2020... 2026 contention doesn't really matter to the fans much at now, and Reinsdorf might no longer even be around. Of course, there's another perspective. I'm sure that Cubs' fans are thankful in these last 2-3 years of their contention window that they control Bryant, Baez, Rizzo and Contreras as long as they do. They can grope and whine about all the prospects they've traded away and how well they're performing with other organizations...but they're still right there in the thick of it in Season 5 (unfortunately for them, the Dodgers and Braves might not be cooperating.) The other thing having that extra year of control does is that it also helps to justify charging $8 extra per month for the Cubs' Network/Marquee. Likewise, the White Sox have to believe that Robert and Madrigal are centerpieces when they are negotiating yet another new t.v. deal in 2024. (Of course, this is the type of argument only an accounting firm or JR's tax attorney would enjoy...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, poppysox said: This is past the issue of money since both Robert and JR both have plenty of that. It's about control since both parties would obviously want Robert on the Sox now. I'm suggesting both sides would gain by agreeing to the actual dollar and cents value of the less than 3 month issue. Both sides can hold their collective breath until approximately the end of next April but it's rather childish. Idk why your assuming that there's some magic number, it's just as likely Robert would ask for more in an extension than the Sox would ever dream of giving out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: They better hope an extra year with Robert/Madrigal is worth losing a possibly competitive one with Moncada and Giolito in 2020... 2026 contention doesn't really matter to the fans much at now, and Reinsdorf might no longer even be around. Of course, there's another perspective. I'm sure that Cubs' fans are thankful in these last 2-3 years of their contention window that they control Bryant, Baez, Rizzo and Contreras as long as they do. They can grope and whine about all the prospects they've traded away and how well they're performing with other organizations...but they're still right there in the thick of it in Season 5 (unfortunately for them, the Dodgers and Braves might not be cooperating.) The other thing having that extra year of control does is that it also helps to justify charging $8 extra per month for the Cubs' Network/Marquee. Likewise, the White Sox have to believe that Robert and Madrigal are centerpieces when they are negotiating yet another new t.v. deal in 2024. (Of course, this is the type of argument only an accounting firm or JR's tax attorney would enjoy...) The Cubs calling Bryant up later may have hurt them. They ended up in a tight race with Pitt and St Louis and finished third. 2 games they lost early on could have won the division, especially their close Cards games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 On 7/20/2019 at 11:22 AM, SonofaRoache said: I don't understand why so many fans hate the idea of him coming up August 1st. He gets to struggle for two months, get better in the offseason and has a chance to help us win in 2020. To be honest, we shouldn't even be worried about 2026 right now when we have 6 years of hopefully quality baseball coming up. Something we haven't seen since the early 1900s. 2026 will still be good if our FO proves to be savvy and our owners continues to spend money. Let's not throw 2020 out the window for 2026 when both can be convention years. For my sanity I hope he stays down as long as possible so people don't LOL at his failures in game threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesterday333 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: The Cubs calling Bryant up later may have hurt them. They ended up in a tight race with Pitt and St Louis and finished third. 2 games they lost early on could have won the division, especially their close Cards games. That's the thing... it MAY have hurt them. You really don't know if it did. What if he had a rough couple games that cost them wins in those first couple weeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think the "he might help win a close game in April that could affect a tight playoff race down the line" actually minimizes the impact of a delayed call-up. IMO the bigger loss of not calling a guy up until late April is the delayed major league adjustment period. In the big picture, I think that would cost a team more wins and hurt their playoff chances more than anything specific to Ws and Ls in the first two weeks. Rookie Player X with two months and two weeks of experience >> Rookie Player X making his ML debut in win-now mode 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: The Cubs calling Bryant up later may have hurt them. They ended up in a tight race with Pitt and St Louis and finished third. 2 games they lost early on could have won the division, especially their close Cards games. That argument would work better if they missed the playoffs entirely...still going to the NL Championship against the Mets validated that decision in the minds of Epstein and Hoyer. They got there one year earlier than anyone could have predicted. That said, if Bryant's determined to walk as a result of that bitterness, you pretty much have to keep Baez/Rizzo/Contreras together as long as possible. Realistically, it was never going to be realistic to keep all four of those guys, not with other contracts like Heyward, Chatwood and Darvish on the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: That argument would work better if they missed the playoffs entirely...still going to the NL Championship against the Mets validated that decision in the minds of Epstein and Hoyer. They got there one year earlier than anyone could have predicted. That said, if Bryant's determined to walk as a result of that bitterness, you pretty much have to keep Baez/Rizzo/Contreras together as long as possible. Realistically, it was never going to be realistic to keep all four of those guys, not with other contracts like Heyward, Chatwood and Darvish on the books. Well in the old playoff format they would have missed the playoffs. And a road game in a play in game is tougher to win than a home game. Had they lost 2-1 things may have been different for Theo and company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, Buehrlesque said: I think the "he might help win a close game in April that could affect a tight playoff race down the line" actually minimizes the impact of a delayed call-up. IMO the bigger loss of not calling a guy up until late April is the delayed major league adjustment period. In the big picture, I think that would cost a team more wins and hurt their playoff chances more than anything specific to Ws and Ls in the first two weeks. Rookie Player X with two months and two weeks of experience >> Rookie Player X making his ML debut in win-now mode My argument is call Robert up next week so that by 2020 he is more ready to help us win from day one. The bonus of the call up is getting that extra win or two in early April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just out of curiosity, do the people who feel that Robert should not be called up at all this season (unless he signs an extension) believe that the Braves and Padres were foolish bringing up Acuna and Tatis early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, Kyyle23 said: Just out of curiosity, do the people who feel that Robert should not be called up at all this season (unless he signs an extension) believe that the Braves and Padres were foolish bringing up Acuna and Tatis early? Acuna I believe was held back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, bmags said: Acuna I believe was held back. I could have sworn that they brought him up early and said fuck it but you are correct Welp, on to Tatis can't wait for caulfield to respond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, Kyyle23 said: I could have sworn that they brought him up early and said fuck it but you are correct Welp, on to Tatis can't wait for caulfield to respond When you say his name three times, he jumps off his Colombian steed to relitigate the Tatis trade by comparing it to the Tony Pena/Chris Carter trade and how it relates to the 1996 season of the Toronto Blue Jays. 😍 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: I could have sworn that they brought him up early and said fuck it but you are correct Welp, on to Tatis can't wait for caulfield to respond My honest opinion - I don't particularly GAF what the Padres or the Braves, or anyone else is doing. It was refreshing to see the Padres give Tatis a shot from the get-go this season. I personally think it was short-sighted and kind of dumb, but definitely refreshing to see a team stay "fuck it" to the contractual control and actually put their best talent on the big league roster. That being said, the Padres are in a slightly different spot than the Sox seeing as they just spent $300M on Machado, and also have a couple other large, long(er) term contracts in Hosmer and Myers. The Padres were no longer tanking or frankly really rebuilding once they gave Machado $300M. My position on Robert would likely be a little different if Machado was on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: My honest opinion - I don't particularly GAF what the Padres or the Braves, or anyone else is doing. It was refreshing to see the Padres give Tatis a shot from the get-go this season. I personally think it was short-sighted and kind of dumb, but definitely refreshing to see a team stay "fuck it" to the contractual control and actually put their best talent on the big league roster. That being said, the Padres are in a slightly different spot than the Sox seeing as they just spent $300M on Machado, and also have a couple other large, long(er) term contracts in Hosmer and Myers. The Padres were no longer tanking or frankly really rebuilding once they gave Machado $300M. My position on Robert would likely be a little different if Machado was on the Sox. If the Sox sign Cole, should they bring up Robert immediately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, soxfan49 said: If the Sox sign Cole, should they bring up Robert immediately? IMO - no, they should wait like 2 weeks. I really don't see any scenario that Robert breaks camp with the Sox if he doesn't appear in the big leagues this season. Only scenario I guess would be an extension, but that has been discussed at length as to why that is unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 48 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Just out of curiosity, do the people who feel that Robert should not be called up at all this season (unless he signs an extension) believe that the Braves and Padres were foolish bringing up Acuna and Tatis early? Acuna wasn't early, I thought? Wasn't he the one who needed to straighten his cap or some stupidness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said: The Cubs calling Bryant up later may have hurt them. They ended up in a tight race with Pitt and St Louis and finished third. 2 games they lost early on could have won the division, especially their close Cards games. They went on to beat both those teams in the playoff though so it ended up working out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, mqr said: Acuna wasn't early, I thought? Wasn't he the one who needed to straighten his cap or some stupidness Yea I revised to Tatis. I'm sure there are others, but for some reason I thought Acuna was brought up early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: They went on to beat both those teams in the playoff though so it ended up working out. If we make the playoffs next year after calling up Robert this year, we can say it ended up working out too. The Cubs were in a tough spot as a second wild card. At that point, the odds were in favor of it not working out. Had they lost to Pitt on the road, who knows if 2016 even happens. The team wouldn't have had the playoff experience from 2015. If Pitt wins and beats the Cards, maybe they retool in the offseason to try to win a title, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: IMO - no, they should wait like 2 weeks. I really don't see any scenario that Robert breaks camp with the Sox if he doesn't appear in the big leagues this season. Only scenario I guess would be an extension, but that has been discussed at length as to why that is unlikely. It's either bring Robert up in a few weeks or wait til mid April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, SonofaRoache said: It's either bring Robert up in a few weeks or wait til mid April. Nah. Robert would be up now if he was coming up this season. He isn't. It's next April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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