I guess the "momentum" towards being competitive was just dumb luck?

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

The biggest thing is that the bottom of the league is such a mess. There are sooooo many teams tanking that the Sox have absolutely no shot of catching, short of completely starting over. They need to find some exit velocity ASAP

Not like last year.  There are six really bad AL teams and then the Marlins.   

[ChiSox59]

11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

God it was so nice when the the team overachieving because it prevented you from screaming this ridiculous narrative over and over again.  But to act like they can’t put a winning product on the field next year is beyond ridiculous.

Keep:

• Moncada (3B), Anderson (SS), Eloy (LF), Abreu (1B), McCann (C), Leury (UTL), Giolito (SP1), Cease (SP4), Kopech (SP4), Lopez (SP5/LR), Colome (CL), Bummer (SU), Fry (MR), Herrera (MR)

Promote:

• Robert (CF), Madrigal (2B), Collins (BC)

Acquire:

• RF, DH, IF, OF, SP2, SP5/LR, SU, MR

That’s eight spots we’d have to fill worst case scenario (there are internal options at some of these spots), but only say five of any real significance (it’s hilarious you think every team has perfect 25 man rosters).  There is zero reason Hahn can’t fill those five spots when he should have a good $70M to work with even after extending Abreu.

Piggy-backing off this post I made of pre-deadline moves.

• Sox acquire Brandon Nimmo from the Mets for Blake Rutherford, Seby Zavala and Codi Heuer
• Sox trade Jose Abreu, Welington Castillo and cash considerations to the A's for Sheldon Nuese
• Sox trade Alex Colome to the Dodgers for Josiah Gray and Kyle Garlick
• Sox trade Jon Jay and Evan Marshall to the A's for Resley Linares
• Yolmer traded to somebody for a warm body

Add these moves in the offseason:

• Sign Gerrit Cole - 6 years / $168M
• Sign Yasmani Grandal - 3 years / $60M
• Sign Alex Wood - 1 year / $10M
• Sign Dellin Betances - 3 years / $40M
• Resign Jose Abreu - 2 years / $18M
• Trade for Derek Dietrich

OD Line-Up and Rotation:

Leury CF, Moncada 3B, Brandon Nimmo RF, Eloy Jimenez LF, Jose Abreu 1B, Yasmani Grandal DH/C, James McCann C/DH, Tim Anderson SS, Derek Dietrich 2B.

BN: Collins, Nuese, UTILITY GUY

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Cease, Wood, Lopez (Kopech in AAA)

Line-Up and Rotation by June 1:

Robert CF, Moncada 3B, Nimmo RF, Jimenez LF, Abreu 1B, Grandal DH/C, McCann C/DH, Anderson SS, Madrigal 2B

BN: Leury, Dietrich, Collins

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Wood

Pen: Betances, Bummer, Fry, Hamilton, Lopez, Herrera, Gray, one of Burdi/Thompson/Fulmer/Ruiz/Frare/Johnson/Hansen/Medeiros/Vierira/Covey/Cordera

AND GO TO FUCKING BATTLE! If you're looking for any help Rick, just shoot me a PM! 

Edited July 18, 2019 by ChiSox59

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

The biggest thing is that the bottom of the league is such a mess. There are sooooo many teams tanking that the Sox have absolutely no shot of catching, short of completely starting over. They need to find some exit velocity ASAP

The term you're searching for is escape velocity, which is the velocity required to escape the gravitational pull of a planet. 

Yes, they need to escape the gravitational pull of the bottom of the league. 

I haven't been worried one bit about Giolito and Moncada until this week, but now I'm wondering if this stretch is a tone setter for the 2nd half. 

I'm nowhere near ready to say that the entire first half was fool's gold, but I'm not going to dismiss the possibility either. It is too early to say anything about this, but there is a real fear among the fanbase right now that everyone is just going to revert to sucking and we're going to be right back to the same point that we were in March, with zero players that you can definitely pencil into the lineup and rotation the next time they win. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Piggy-backing off this post I made of pre-deadline moves.

• Sox acquire Brandon Nimmo from the Mets for Blake Rutherford, Seby Zavala and Codi Heuer
• Sox trade Jose Abreu, Welington Castillo and cash considerations to the A's for Sheldon Nuese
• Sox trade Alex Colome to the Dodgers for Josiah Gray and Kyle Garlick
• Sox trade Jon Jay and Evan Marshall to the A's for Resley Linares
• Yolmer traded to somebody for a warm body

Add these moves in the offseason:

• Sign Gerrit Cole - 6 years / $168M
• Sign Yasmani Grandal - 3 years / $60M
• Sign Alex Wood - 1 year / $10M
• Sign Dellin Betances - 3 years / $40M
• Resign Jose Abreu - 2 years / $18M
• Trade for Derek Dietrich

OD Line-Up and Rotation:

Leury CF, Moncada 3B, Brandon Nimmo RF, Eloy Jimenez LF, Jose Abreu 1B, Yasmani Grandal DH/C, James McCann C/DH, Tim Anderson SS, Derek Dietrich 2B.

BN: Collins, Nuese, UTILITY GUY

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Cease, Wood, Lopez (Kopech in AAA)

Line-Up and Rotation by June 1:

Robert CF, Moncada 3B, Nimmo RF, Jimenez LF, Abreu 1B, Grandal DH/C, McCann C/DH, Anderson SS, Madrigal 2B

BN: Leury, Dietrich, Collins

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Wood

Pen: Betances, Bummer, Fry, Hamilton, Lopez, Herrera, Burdi, one of Thompson/Fulmer/Ruiz/Frare/Johnson/Hansen/Medeiros/Vierira/Covey/Cordera

AND GO TO FUCKING BATTLE! If you're looking for any help Rick, just shoot me a PM! 

You've put a lot of thought into this. On paper it looks good. I'd be stunned (and thrilled) if they signed the free agents you are advocating though. 

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The term you're searching for is escape velocity, which is the velocity required to escape the gravitational pull of a planet. 

Dammit, I knew something was off

[Kyyle23]

In response to the original post, I would have to say I trust the sample size of the first 86 games over the last six.  They arent great or even good, they are mediocre when healthy and can approach good.   The starting pitching is a huge drag and relying on Giolito to be damn near perfect is really tough

[ChiSox59]

8 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

You've put a lot of thought into this. On paper it looks good. I'd be stunned (and thrilled) if they signed the free agents you are advocating though. 

Yah I understand the reluctance to believe that they'll actually sign a few marquee FA.  But the time is now.  The time was not last offseason.  They have boatloads of money to spend just to get to a league average payroll.  All the guys I just mentioned would cost a grand total of $296M.....less than they would have had to give Machado. You get 5 players instead of one.

I believe.  I don't know if they Sox will do what it takes to get Cole, but he should 100% be their top target, and I expect them to do what they can to get him.  The rest of the signings are not THAT major.  You could probably live without Grandal, but I personally love the guy and think he'd a fantastic fit as C/DH combo with McCann for a year.  I also think 3/$60 is realistic, and that isn't a deal that is going to hamstring the Sox.  I threw Betances in last minute - not at all married to that idea.  But if you make the other moves, you best have someone other than Aaron Bummer to close games.  

Edited July 18, 2019 by ChiSox59

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah I understand the reluctance to believe that they'll actually sign a few marquee FA.  But the time is now.  The time was not last offseason.  They have boatloads of money to spend just to get to a league average payroll.  All the guys I just mentioned would cost a grand total of $296M.....less than they would have had to give Machado. You get 5 players instead of one.

I believe.  I don't know if they Sox will do what it takes to get Cole, but he should 100% be their top target, and I expect them to do what they can to get him.  The rest of the signings are not THAT major.  You could probably live without Grandal, but I personally love the guy and think he'd a fantastic fit as C/DH combo with McCann for a year.  I also think 3/$60 is realistic, and that isn't a deal that is going to hamstring the Sox.  I threw Betances in last minute - not at all married to that idea.  But if you make the other moves, you best have someone other than Aaron Bummer to close games.  

Minus Gerrit Cole, that isn't an offseason that can't imagine the White Sox having. Trading for Nimmo and Dietrich would be pretty tough though I think. But I really would like them both, I need people who know how to take a gd walk. 

[Jose Abreu]

3 minutes ago, mqr said:

Minus Gerrit Cole, that isn't an offseason that can't imagine the White Sox having. Trading for Nimmo and Dietrich would be pretty tough though I think. But I really would like them both, I need people who know how to take a gd walk. 

Or in Dietrich's case, someone who knows how to take a gd HBP. I'm not kidding, he gets like 20 per year (on pace for 30+ this year) so they're basically bonus walks for him every year. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, mqr said:

Minus Gerrit Cole, that isn't an offseason that can't imagine the White Sox having. Trading for Nimmo and Dietrich would be pretty tough though I think. But I really would like them both, I need people who know how to take a gd walk. 

Yah, Nimmo could be tough.  But he just fits the bill so well.  I don't see the Sox using their resources to sign one of the several RF on the FA market that are right handed and poor defenders.  Nimmo controlled through 2022 as well, so three years.  Conforto would actually work too, but he'd probably cost more as he hasn't been injured all year like Nimmo, and he has 1 less year of control.  

I don't think Dietrich would be that difficult to get.  He only has one year of control and the Reds aren't going anywhere.  He could probably be had next couple weeks.  You'd have to give up something, but nothing major.  He's the perfect guy to fill in at 2B until Madrigal is ready, and then use all around the diamond after that.  Love the fit.  

[mqr]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, Nimmo could be tough.  But he just fits the bill so well.  I don't see the Sox using their resources to sign one of the several RF on the FA market that are right handed and poor defenders.  Nimmo controlled through 2022 as well, so three years.  Conforto would actually work too, but he'd probably cost more as he hasn't been injured all year like Nimmo, and he has 1 less year of control.  

I don't think Dietrich would be that difficult to get.  He only has one year of control and the Reds aren't going anywhere.  He could probably be had next couple weeks.  You'd have to give up something, but nothing major.  He's the perfect guy to fill in at 2B until Madrigal is ready, and then use all around the diamond after that.  Love the fit.  

On their own I think both could be had, what I'm saying is it'd be kinda tough to get both at the same time. They both would take mid tier prospects and the Sox don't exactly have a plethora of those. 

Also I'm pretty sure Dietrich is under control in 2021 as well. 

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

On their own I think both could be had, what I'm saying is it'd be kinda tough to get both at the same time. They both would take mid tier prospects and the Sox don't exactly have a plethora of those. 

Also I'm pretty sure Dietrich is under control in 2021 as well. 

You’d be mistaken. He has 4.15 years service time heading into 2019. 2020 will be his final year of arb. 

Dietrich would be considerably cheaper than Nimmo. Sox gonna clear some of their 40 man issues this offseason by trading some of those mid tier prospects IMO.

Edited July 18, 2019 by ChiSox59

[OneDog847]

59 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I mean, all you keep repeating is pretty much everything will go wrong next year.  It's tiring.  

they will be attempting to compete next season, not punting for a higher draft pick again.  Whether they are successful will depend a large amount on their developed players like Anderson moncada Robert Kopech Cease Giolito etc.

if their plan was to actually stretch this to 2023 like you keep saying, then the rebuild is a massive failure 

The last decade of White Sox baseball has been tiring. Everything has pretty much gone wrong for the White Sox since Rick Hahn took over as GM. I'm not sure why next year is going to be any different. 

15 minutes ago, mqr said:

On their own I think both could be had, what I'm saying is it'd be kinda tough to get both at the same time. They both would take mid tier prospects and the Sox don't exactly have a plethora of those. 

Also I'm pretty sure Dietrich is under control in 2021 as well. 

How do the White Sox not have a plethora of mid tier prospects? They haven't had a winning season since 2012. Something does not compute. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by OneDog847

[Kyyle23]

Just now, OneDog847 said:

The last decade of White Sox baseball has been tiring. Everything has pretty much gone wrong for the White Sox since Rick Hahn took over as GM. I'm not sure why next year is going to be any different. 

How do the White Sox not have a plethora of mid tier prospects? They haven't had a winning season since 2012. Something does not compute. 

Great, you have made your statement and we all know where you stand.  No need to repeat ad nauseam 

[mqr]

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

Or in Dietrich's case, someone who knows how to take a gd HBP. I'm not kidding, he gets like 20 per year (on pace for 30+ this year) so they're basically bonus walks for him every year. 

He has more HBPs than singles this year. What. The. Hell

[TaylorStSox]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

If we are giving Schneider and Thomas all the credit in the world for their string of success for nearly 15 years having the best track record in the business keeping guys off the DL (It was our biggest competitive advantage, arguably), then how can the exact opposite be just bad luck?

Wouldn't the opposite be a 15 year run of injuries? That could be it. 

[Capital G]

8 hours ago, NWINFan said:

I think the first half did provide some real encouragement. But I don't see this franchise "opening up" its wallets. You may be right in the 2021 might be a breakthrough. I just wish I had more faith in this organization.

Do I think we will sign Cole? No. We will try and get outbid.

But I do think they will start bringing in tier 2 level FA to fill in the gaps. If we can get continued growth from the mentioned players and add Madrigal, Vaughn, Robert, etc. I feel like we can become relevant. I think in '21 we can also leverage some of our minor leaguers to trade for pieces.

 

Trying to stay positive lol

 

 

 

[greg775]

When healthy, the Sox have 5-7 pretty good players/pitchers. Is it this difficult? You take the 5-7 good players and sign free agents and build a competitive team. This waiting around is pretty annoying. We already got some good players and now some on here are talking 2023 before we are good? Or 2022? If this is so ... don't you agree it won't be healthy having our studs lose so many games? Moncada will feel like some sort of jinx/failure if the team blows in 2020, 2021 and 2022.

How does this pertain to this thread? Well in the first half we had 5-7 players play so well we won a lotta games.

Edited July 18, 2019 by greg775

[yesterday333]

5 minutes ago, greg775 said:

When healthy, the Sox have 5-7 pretty good players/pitchers. Is it this difficult? You take the 5-7 good players and sign free agents and build a competitive team. This waiting around is pretty annoying. We already got some good players and now some on here are talking 2023 before we are good? Or 2022? If this is so ... don't you agree it won't be healthy having our studs lose so many games? Moncada will feel like some sort of jinx/failure if the team blows in 2020, 2021 and 2022.

How does this pertain to this thread? Well in the first half we had 5-7 players play so well we won a lotta games.

Most people don't think it will be 2023... that's one person who thinks the sky is falling...

[greg775]

1 minute ago, yesterday333 said:

Most people don't think it will be 2023... that's one person who thinks the sky is falling...

Good. 2023 seems a long ways away to Greg. I wanna win.

[yesterday333]

4 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Good. 2023 seems a long ways away to Greg. I wanna win.

I still think we will be winning next year. This is a rough patch that was bound to happen this year, especially without Timmy and Eloy and our pitching staff being so bad. Next year things really start to come together.

[Chicago White Sox]

20 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Piggy-backing off this post I made of pre-deadline moves.

• Sox acquire Brandon Nimmo from the Mets for Blake Rutherford, Seby Zavala and Codi Heuer
• Sox trade Jose Abreu, Welington Castillo and cash considerations to the A's for Sheldon Nuese
• Sox trade Alex Colome to the Dodgers for Josiah Gray and Kyle Garlick
• Sox trade Jon Jay and Evan Marshall to the A's for Resley Linares
• Yolmer traded to somebody for a warm body

Add these moves in the offseason:

• Sign Gerrit Cole - 6 years / $168M
• Sign Yasmani Grandal - 3 years / $60M
• Sign Alex Wood - 1 year / $10M
• Sign Dellin Betances - 3 years / $40M
• Resign Jose Abreu - 2 years / $18M
• Trade for Derek Dietrich

OD Line-Up and Rotation:

Leury CF, Moncada 3B, Brandon Nimmo RF, Eloy Jimenez LF, Jose Abreu 1B, Yasmani Grandal DH/C, James McCann C/DH, Tim Anderson SS, Derek Dietrich 2B.

BN: Collins, Nuese, UTILITY GUY

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Cease, Wood, Lopez (Kopech in AAA)

Line-Up and Rotation by June 1:

Robert CF, Moncada 3B, Nimmo RF, Jimenez LF, Abreu 1B, Grandal DH/C, McCann C/DH, Anderson SS, Madrigal 2B

BN: Leury, Dietrich, Collins

Rotation: Cole, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Wood

Pen: Betances, Bummer, Fry, Hamilton, Lopez, Herrera, Gray, one of Burdi/Thompson/Fulmer/Ruiz/Frare/Johnson/Hansen/Medeiros/Vierira/Covey/Cordera

AND GO TO FUCKING BATTLE! If you're looking for any help Rick, just shoot me a PM! 

I FUCKING LOVE IT!  

Seriously, there is zero reason they can’t pull off something like this.  I’m still skeptical on our ability to land Cole (due to years), but without question he’s what we need and missing out on Machado could be a blessing in disguise if it lets us commit those resources to Cole.

[Chicago White Sox]

20 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Great, you have made your statement and we all know where you stand.  No need to repeat ad nauseam 

@OneDog847 makes @Moan4Yoan look like a Hawk Harrelson level homer.

[poppysox]

14 hours ago, yesterday333 said:

I still think we will be winning next year. This is a rough patch that was bound to happen this year, especially without Timmy and Eloy and our pitching staff being so bad. Next year things really start to come together.

I agree with you...we contend next year.

[OneDog847]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

@OneDog847 makes @Moan4Yoan look like a Hawk Harrelson level homer.

Lol. Go look at your comments in the Machado thread. You wrote the definition on homerism in that one. 

Also, I love the Hawkeroo. I can see my Hawk Solo bobblehead on the shelf as I type this. Thanks for the comparison.