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Greg Hibbard

The fragility of some fans on this board recently...

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2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This team is on pace for a 10 win improvement from last year’s team with essentially zero contributions from free agency. Stay the course. Increased participation in free agency in 4 months, specifically signing second tier guys which they didn’t do last winter, combined with continued improvement from the young MLB guys and promotion of top minor league prospects should lead to another 10-15 game improvement next season. That puts them into the wild card conversation at a minimum.

I agree as long as they don't make any significant trade deadline moves. If they do move Colome, I think they will finish closer to last year than 70.  If they stay on pace and win 70, then they would need to win 16-18 more games next year since the WC this year will most likely be low 90's. 

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Fantastic post OP. I get that there is a place for grousing, criticism, and blowing off steam, but when the majority of the posts on this board are nothing but repetitive negativity it makes me not want to interact with Soxtalk. That makes me sad. There are some fantastic posts, posters, and discussions that happen here, but the effort required to filter through the miasma is becoming increasingly tougher lately. Respect to those posters that continue to add value to this place.

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9 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I agree as long as they don't make any significant trade deadline moves. If they do move Colome, I think they will finish closer to last year than 70.  If they stay on pace and win 70, then they would need to win 16-18 more games next year since the WC this year will most likely be low 90's. 

You figure, they could get 5-6 wins out of internal additions/ people getting healthy. Hopefully another 5-10 wins from continued improvements of the guys present. 16-18 really isn't that crazy if they spend even a little bit of money. 

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1 hour ago, Baron said:

Rick Hahn being trusted to fill out those spots no matter how many there are is the problem. 

I don’t mean to be condescending, but if you really think there is no hope for Hahn filling out the rest of the roster then why don’t you simply give up?  No point in committing your time to the White Sox if you’re certain they will fail.

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Whomever said in 2016 that Sox fans couldn't handle a rebuild was correct. 

That is all. 

 

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9 minutes ago, mqr said:

You figure, they could get 5-6 wins out of internal additions/ people getting healthy. Hopefully another 5-10 wins from continued improvements of the guys present. 16-18 really isn't that crazy if they spend even a little bit of money. 

Cubs improved 24 games between 2014 and 2015. Their primary additions to the 2015 team were Bryant and Russell via promotion (Robert and Madrigal), trading for Fowler (trade for RF?), and signing Lester and Lackey (sign Bumgarner and Ryu?). If the Sox end this season around 72 wins, even “just” a 15 game improvement next year puts them in the wild card conversation.

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15 minutes ago, mqr said:

You figure, they could get 5-6 wins out of internal additions/ people getting healthy. Hopefully another 5-10 wins from continued improvements of the guys present. 16-18 really isn't that crazy if they spend even a little bit of money. 

I think Eloy will get better. I think Moncada's had a solid year already.  My concern is that we have no clue what  Cease, Lopez and  Gio will give us. All three are in a rollercoaster cycle.  WE got outstanding contributions from Gio and McCann first half but we may not see that again. 

I never say guys will be healthy. Look around baseball. It is normal that teams play with 2-3 regulars out for extended periods.  But I think we are at a disadvantage because our 25-35 slots on roster are really not MLB average.  

I think  2020 is the year we get to 80 wins and 2021 to 90. Hopefully I am a year off. 

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22 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Fantastic post OP. I get that there is a place for grousing, criticism, and blowing off steam, but when the majority of the posts on this board are nothing but repetitive negativity it makes me not want to interact with Soxtalk. That makes me sad. There are some fantastic posts, posters, and discussions that happen here, but the effort required to filter through the miasma is becoming increasingly tougher lately. Respect to those posters that continue to add value to this place.

10 bonus points for making me look up the definition of miasma 

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13 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

When the Sox trailed the Twins 9-0 on Sunday a pair of voices from young fans stood out in the crowd. They were cheering their hearts out with “Let’s go White Sox” chants. Renteria had NBC Sports Chicago’s Chuck Garfien find one in the crowd and gave him a signed ball.

“We were 9-0 and that little kid was out there yelling,” Renteria said. “I can hear it. I thought he was way up in the stands or something. I told Chuck, ‘find that voice.’

“When you have kids who are looking upon Major League Baseball players with so much joy and enthusiasm. For me as an adult, we can become very cynical, sarcastic and very negative in any sport professionally because it’s all about performance and coming out on top and blah, blah, blah. Just hearing the voice of this kid just cheering you on, cheering you on and cheering on the team and talking about ‘Let’s go White Sox.’ For me, that lifted me up. And I wanted to find out who it was because, believe it or not, even us old guys and players in the field, need to hear that support sometimes. When it comes from the smallest little guy that you can see out there at that particular point for me. For me, it was a blessing. I’m glad I heard him. We gave him a little baseball. That’s what it’s all about and at the end of the day I think if we have child-like joy and desire and excitement and willingness to go out and just leave it out there, we’ll be OK.”

Renteria signed the ball, gave it to the kid and it said “Thank you. Keep it going and keep believing."

Turns out it was Drake LaRoche.  Kenny came down and escorted him out of the park. 

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33 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Fantastic post OP. I get that there is a place for grousing, criticism, and blowing off steam, but when the majority of the posts on this board are nothing but repetitive negativity it makes me not want to interact with Soxtalk. That makes me sad. There are some fantastic posts, posters, and discussions that happen here, but the effort required to filter through the miasma is becoming increasingly tougher lately. Respect to those posters that continue to add value to this place.

Preach 

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18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Whomever said in 2016 that Sox fans couldn't handle a rebuild was correct. 

That is all. 

 

Sox fans have been great during the rebuild. It’s been one kick to the balls after another, and people are still excited (rightfully so, but your casual fan doesn’t know all about the prospects like we do)

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24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t mean to be condescending, but if you really think there is no hope for Hahn filling out the rest of the roster then why don’t you simply give up?  No point in committing your time to the White Sox if you’re certain they will fail.

I can only speak for myself here but as bad and as brutal as the Sox have been over time (the results speak for themselves) I'll always remain a fan. I was born and raised on the South Side, loyalty is a big deal to me as long as their is accountability. Some of my earliest memories revolve around baseball, the White Sox and my Dad. I will never give that up.

That being said, fans are short for fanatics. Given that Sox history (five post season appearances since new ownership took over in January 1981, three post season appearances since MLB went to a three division format, tied for 27th in all of baseball, six straight losing years and nine of 12.) I completely understand why the fans who remain (and the Sox should thank god ANY fans still are interested) get pissed, upset, angry and so forth. These are the White Sox...not the Yankees, not the Cardinals, not the Dodgers...hell not even the Cubs in terms of success.

Now add in over the years the attacks on the fan base by Kenny Williams, Don Cooper and now Steve Stone and again I don't blame fans for ,losing it. The Sox need all the fans they can get, Brooks Boyer (one of the few guys in the organization who I think actually gets it and treats fans with respect) told me that to him EVERY single fan is important. That's the attitude this organization  should have but does not. That is very unfortunate and bad business to boot.

Also keep in mind this is a message board, all opinions should be welcome as long as they aren't racist, sexist, or a personal attack. If you don't like what fans are posting, simple answer...don't read them or don't visit the thread.  

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8 hours ago, DirtySox said:

Fantastic post OP. I get that there is a place for grousing, criticism, and blowing off steam, but when the majority of the posts on this board are nothing but repetitive negativity it makes me not want to interact with Soxtalk. That makes me sad. There are some fantastic posts, posters, and discussions that happen here, but the effort required to filter through the miasma is becoming increasingly tougher lately. Respect to those posters that continue to add value to this place.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. 

Regardless of the fact that I don't like Collins, there are plenty of positives. In March if you wanted to declare the rebuild dead, nobody could argue with you. Now it is alive and well. Huge difference. Despite that, there is a large segment of this board that continues to focus on solely the shortcomings. 

7 hours ago, fathom said:

Sox fans have been great during the rebuild. It’s been one kick to the balls after another, and people are still excited (rightfully so, but your casual fan doesn’t know all about the prospects like we do)

I'd say it is a 50/50 split. Rebuilding was the right course of action 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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22 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Cubs improved 24 games between 2014 and 2015. Their primary additions to the 2015 team were Bryant and Russell via promotion (Robert and Madrigal), trading for Fowler (trade for RF?), and signing Lester and Lackey (sign Bumgarner and Ryu?). If the Sox end this season around 72 wins, even “just” a 15 game improvement next year puts them in the wild card conversation.

You forgot the biggest improvement . They replaced Renteria w Maddon.  That was probably good for 12 of the 24 games. 

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52 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t mean to be condescending, but if you really think there is no hope for Hahn filling out the rest of the roster then why don’t you simply give up?  No point in committing your time to the White Sox if you’re certain they will fail.

If it only was that easy. I have waved my white flag as much as possible. Once the games get out of hand anymore, even if I am there, I am out of there. Up until last season I don't think, except for rain delays, I ever had left a White Sox game before it was over. I do it all the time now. 

But I have no confidence in management. They are trying to get in a position where they were before where adding correct pieces would lead to wins. They rarely add a correct piece. It's almost always wrong. Even the guys they miss out on, the Logan Morrison's of the world, were just wastes of money. Maybe they are due to be correct. That would be nice, but I don't think so.

Edited by Dick Allen

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7 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Also keep in mind this is a message board, all opinions should be welcome as long as they aren't racist, sexist, or a personal attack. If you don't like what fans are posting, simple answer...don't read them or don't visit the thread.  

Very true, but it's getting hard to simply avoid the redundant, doom and gloom posts over and over because they're in every single thread. Which is why threads like this get created

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4 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

You forgot the biggest improvement . They replaced Renteria w Maddon.  That was probably good for 12 of the 24 games. 

You're absolutely nuts if you think a manager makes that big a difference. 

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1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Very true, but it's getting hard to simply avoid the redundant, doom and gloom posts over and over because they're in every single thread. Which is why threads like this get created

Well then you have only two choices as I see it logically, deal with it as best as you can or step away until a better time in your opinion because as long as the Sox continue to be one of the worst teams in baseball, fair or not, fans are going to vent.

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6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I can only speak for myself here but as bad and as brutal as the Sox have been over time (the results speak for themselves) I'll always remain a fan. I was born and raised on the South Side, loyalty is a big deal to me as long as their is accountability. Some of my earliest memories revolve around baseball, the White Sox and my Dad. I will never give that up.

That being said, fans are short for fanatics. Given that Sox history (five post season appearances since new ownership took over in January 1981, three post season appearances since MLB went to a three division format, tied for 27th in all of baseball, six straight losing years and nine of 12.) I completely understand why the fans who remain (and the Sox should thank god ANY fans still are interested) get pissed, upset, angry and so forth. These are the White Sox...not the Yankees, not the Cardinals, not the Dodgers...hell not even the Cubs in terms of success.

Now add in over the years the attacks on the fan base by Kenny Williams, Don Cooper and now Steve Stone and again I don't blame fans for ,losing it. The Sox need all the fans they can get, Brooks Boyer (one of the few guys in the organization who I think actually gets it and treats fans with respect) told me that to him EVERY single fan is important. That's the attitude this organization  should have but does not. That is very unfortunate and bad business to boot.

Also keep in mind this is a message board, all opinions should be welcome as long as they aren't racist, sexist, or a personal attack. If you don't like what fans are posting, simple answer...don't read them or don't visit the thread.  

The White Sox are in my blood as well and I will be a fan for life.  I guess that is the product of growing up close enough to Comiskey that I would get excited every time I heard the fireworks.  My Dad would call out from the back yard "who hit one?!?"  That being said I come to Soxtalk to commiserate with fellow Sox fans.  I know it is frustrating to many when the game threads get repetitive but I do understand most of the posters are there to blow off some steam and I get that.

Will the rebuild work?  I have absolutely no idea but I do love much of the new talent that they have acquired/drafted.  One last thing....I do think that Tim Anderson is the heart and soul and leader of this team and it was a blow when he went down.  However, in the future, if a rebuild is going to work the team cannot completely fall apart when one guy goes on the IL. 

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12 minutes ago, wegner said:

The White Sox are in my blood as well and I will be a fan for life.  I guess that is the product of growing up close enough to Comiskey that I would get excited every time I heard the fireworks.  My Dad would call out from the back yard "who hit one?!?"  That being said I come to Soxtalk to commiserate with fellow Sox fans.  I know it is frustrating to many when the game threads get repetitive but I do understand most of the posters are there to blow off some steam and I get that.

Will the rebuild work?  I have absolutely no idea but I do love much of the new talent that they have acquired/drafted.  One last thing....I do think that Tim Anderson is the heart and soul and leader of this team and it was a blow when he went down.  However, in the future, if a rebuild is going to work the team cannot completely fall apart when one guy goes on the IL. 

VERY true. The lack of even run of the mill competent players after 2 1/2 years of the rebuild is deeply concerning to me. Injuries happen (just ask the Yankees) but other teams (Yankees, Cardinals) seem to overcome it and do fine. The fact seems to be the organization's drafting and development seems to be badly lacking across the board. That has to be fixed if they want "sustained success" per Rick Hahn. Can they? Who knows. The Sox have shown they dislike change and dislike going outside "the Family" regarding promotions / hirings and so forth.

One tangent point to close. I think it goes without saying that if the Sox had the Dodgers record and were 15 games in front there would be some b****ing, that's the nature of fans, that's the nature of sports...but I guarantee you it would be a lot less.

The old axiom is true, "Winning cures everything..."

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If the Sox didn't have Sale and Eaton and Q to trade, how long would this 5 year rebuild take? 20 or 30 years?

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2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If the Sox didn't have Sale and Eaton and Q to trade, how long would this 5 year rebuild take? 20 or 30 years?

Signing good to great players to team friendly deals is not a knock on the FO.Finding the right trade pieces and deciding when to trade them is something the Sox FO should be  commended for. 

The Marlins had better assets and got very little in return. 

 

Weird take.

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t mean to be condescending, but if you really think there is no hope for Hahn filling out the rest of the roster then why don’t you simply give up?  No point in committing your time to the White Sox if you’re certain they will fail.

I'll be condescending. That's a stupid argument. If you don't see the obvious replies to that I can't help you. 

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6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If the Sox didn't have Sale and Eaton and Q to trade, how long would this 5 year rebuild take? 20 or 30 years?

But they did have those guys, and did a great job in moving them which wasn't a given so who cares what would be if they didn't

Edited by mqr
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Just now, GermanSoxFan said:

Signing good to great players to team friendly deals is not a knock on the FO.Finding the right trade pieces and deciding when to trade them is something the Sox FO should be  commended for. 

The Marlins had better assets and got very little in return. 

 

Weird take.

No it's not a weird take. Look at baseball execs' quotes before the rebuild began. Many said it would be the shortest rebuild of all time because of these assets, yet the kool aid drinkers point out it should take at least as long, if not longer than teams that rebuilt and couldn't trade for multiple major league ready prospects.

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