poppysox Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 3 hours ago, harkness99 said: Before the all star break they were looking like they were improving... might be more exciting to an old dude like jose - if he thinks they are on the brink. Since the all star break it appears that maybe... things are still a ways off from being competitive. It is what it is... but an older guy like Jose may start to have some doubts if he wants to wait for two more years. Now we are talking about if Jose is excited. It's his job to excite us...the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Not a fan of bringing him back because Ricky will continue to bat him 3rd (and play him at 1B) when they're better options internally down the line. If he was batting lower and agreed to DH much more, I'd welcome him back on a short deal but that won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Jose will have a two year invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I initially thought this would be a slam dunk and that he'd be back...now I don't know. His comments about "getting help from the front office" (paraphrasing), the signing of Reed...not I'm not as sure, I'd say in my mind the odds are about 80% he will, before all this I thought they'd be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 23 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: I initially thought this would be a slam dunk and that he'd be back...now I don't know. His comments about "getting help from the front office" (paraphrasing), the signing of Reed...not I'm not as sure, I'd say in my mind the odds are about 80% he will, before all this I thought they'd be higher. Exactly... From some of the things I've seen and heard lately - not as much a sure thing as I thought earlier, but still pretty high. I'm sensing some frustration from him... like when he comments about how they aren't bring up the guys to help, or when he doesn't even bother touching 2nd base on his way back last night, because his give a fuck is busted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 If he was coming back he would already be signed to some sort of 1 or 2 year extension. Surely Hand is not planning on a qualifying offer and you don't just let him walk. I'm surprised.... but I think he's going to be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Who else do the Sox have ready to play 1B next year? They don't even have anyone who could be a decent DH next year except for Jimenez, but they want him in LF. I'd like to see the Sox upgrade, but I doubt if they can sign both a DH and a 1B better than Abreu for next season. They have other holes to fill. He'll be back, hopefully as the primary DH if they can acquire a major league first baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Ron's following and support is picking up steam, much to Greg's chagrin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 I would be very surprised if he isn't on the team next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Jose Abreu's rank among 24 qualified 1B (according to FanGraphs) OBP: 23rd OPS: 17th wOBA: 20th wRC+: 18th K%: 16th BB%: 24th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Jose Abreu's rank among 24 qualified 1B (according to FanGraphs) OBP: 23rd OPS: 17th wOBA: 20th wRC+: 18th K%: 16th BB%: 24th He makes up for it with his defense! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 hours ago, fathom said: He makes up for it with his defense! Don’t forget leadership 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Jose Abreu's rank among 24 qualified 1B (according to FanGraphs) OBP: 23rd OPS: 17th wOBA: 20th wRC+: 18th K%: 16th BB%: 24th @greg775 @vilehoopster @vilepoopster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I guess I wouldn't mind giving him a 1 year deal or a 2 year with club option since Vaughn likely won't be up at all next year. Anything more than that is stupid though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, ron883 said: @greg775 @vilehoopster @vilepoopster How is he in homers and RBIs and runs scored? I happen to think he's an all-star and so do AL officials who put him there. Pay.The.Man. Ron whether you like it or not, intangibles are important in pursuit of division titles. Jose will be vital on and off the field. You advanced stat people seem to have no concern about intangibles like leadership. Why the hell then do guys like Belichick talk about those things all the time? You advanced stat lovers "seem" at least to me to want all young studs at every position on the field. For some reason you are OK with some older pitchers, which has never been explained to me. Pay.Jose.Please. Jerry and the partners shouldn't hoard all the cash during the rebuild. Hey Ron, answer this question: Why was Jose put on the all star team this year? I'll be interested to read your answer. Why was he an all star? We already had 2 others; they didn't need to put him on there. Edited July 28, 2019 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, greg775 said: How is he in homers and RBIs and runs scored? I happen to think he's an all-star and so do AL officials who put him there. Pay.The.Man. Ron whether you like it or not, intangibles are important in pursuit of division titles. Jose will be vital on and off the field. You advanced stat people seem to have no concern about intangibles like leadership. Why the hell then do guys like Belichick talk about those things all the time? You advanced stat lovers "seem" at least to me to want all young studs at every position on the field. For some reason you are OK with some older pitchers, which has never been explained to me. Pay.Jose.Please. Jerry and the partners shouldn't hoard all the cash during the rebuild. Hey Ron, answer this question: Why was Jose put on the all star team this year? I'll be interested to read your answer. Why was he an all star? We already had 2 others; they didn't need to put him on there. At the time he was having a pretty good, but not great season. 50% of it’s about positional needs and filling out the roster with players from other teams. 25% at least is based on past reputation... http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/3b/sort/OPS/order/true Moncada has clearly had the better season, but look how many guys he has to compete with at third...Devers, Bregman, Chapman, etc. http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/1b/sort/OPS/order/true Jose is basically middle of the pack if we go by the most important stat, OPS, OBP+SLG. Santana was named because he’s had a very good season and the game was in CLE. In the NL, he (Jose) would have been buried behind six other players. Look at #8-12...all American Leaguers, but none have the name recognition or play on really bad teams. Once you get to the ASG the first time, it’s much easier to go back again and again. Gurriel gets overshadowed on the Astros...Jose only has 3-4 players on the Sox just a few diehard baseball fans know well to compete with. Voit, overshadowed and has never been named. And six of the best first basemen 5 years ago are below Abreu...all well-known players struggling for various reasons. Edited July 28, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Best outcome for all concerned is Jose signs a two or three year extension for 12-14 million per. His replacement is a year and a half away from ready. Why put ourselves in position to need yet another position filled. Reed is most definitely not the answer. Give Jose a fair offer like I suggest and move on to the clubs real needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 That‘s not a fair offer, that’s a serious overpay. C.J. Cron, coming off a better year than Abreu (and having a better year again) had to settle for $4.8 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 9 hours ago, greg775 said: How is he in homers and RBIs and runs scored? I happen to think he's an all-star and so do AL officials who put him there. Pay.The.Man. Ron whether you like it or not, intangibles are important in pursuit of division titles. Jose will be vital on and off the field. You advanced stat people seem to have no concern about intangibles like leadership. Why the hell then do guys like Belichick talk about those things all the time? You advanced stat lovers "seem" at least to me to want all young studs at every position on the field. For some reason you are OK with some older pitchers, which has never been explained to me. Pay.Jose.Please. Jerry and the partners shouldn't hoard all the cash during the rebuild. Hey Ron, answer this question: Why was Jose put on the all star team this year? I'll be interested to read your answer. Why was he an all star? We already had 2 others; they didn't need to put him on there. Reputation, because other first basemen got injured, and because he was playing better at that point. Now he's playing like trash. He isn't that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: That‘s not a fair offer, that’s a serious overpay. C.J. Cron, coming off a better year than Abreu (and having a better year again) had to settle for $4.8 million. This. This. This. Why can't people grasp this? Jose just isn't worth much. Low OBP first basemen are a dime a dozen. Offer him 1 year/4 million. If he declines, SEE YA! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 hours ago, ron883 said: Reputation, because other first basemen got injured, and because he was playing better at that point. Now he's playing like trash. He isn't that good. Wrong song, Leroy. Guys don’t get selected to be on the All Star team because of “reputation”, unless they are in their last season of a storied career. Abreu got selected because he earned it through being at the top of the league in several offensive categories among first baseman, which indicates in no uncertain terms that HE IS GOOD. PERIOD! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 hours ago, GermanSoxFan said: That‘s not a fair offer, that’s a serious overpay. C.J. Cron, coming off a better year than Abreu (and having a better year again) had to settle for $4.8 million. It's always different for guys in their arb years and non-tendered. You never see those guys sign for more than what their about projected to get if they were tendered a contract and he and the team avoid arbitration by agreeing to a salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 15 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Jose Abreu's rank among 24 qualified 1B (according to FanGraphs) OBP: 23rd OPS: 17th wOBA: 20th wRC+: 18th K%: 16th BB%: 24th Okay, wOBA, that's a completely new one for me, never, never heard of that. Okay, true his OPS is rather stinky right now, but he has been in the slump since the all-star break, just like the rest of the team. I would bet big money that his OPS rank at the all-star break and by the end of the season will be much better than 17th. Again, I will take home runs and RBIS and all-star apprearances over wOBA. Can baseball find anymore silly stats to obsess with? It's borderline hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said: Wrong song, Leroy. Guys don’t get selected to be on the All Star team because of “reputation”, unless they are in their last season of a storied career. Abreu got selected because he earned it through being at the top of the league in several offensive categories among first baseman, which indicates in no uncertain terms that HE IS GOOD. PERIOD! But being league average, where he currently resides...isn’t likely to continue into his age 32-33 seasons. Not if you’ve been paying attention to the trouble he’s been having recently with just typical MLB fastballs over the heart of the plate. If he can recover the final two months and raise it back to 850 ops most would have no problem bringing him back for 2020. There’s also got to be recognition he doesn’t play championship level defense...which you really need with Moncada and Anderson on the left side, scooping or flagging down errant throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 7/26/2019 at 8:55 AM, Jack Parkman said: This. The sad reality is the Sox have waaaaay too many hitters that profile as 1B/DH. There is no reason to block them. No reason to block them . . . unless the guy blocking them is better than the people being blocked. That's how the idea of being blocked works. No wait, he needs to be dumped; he has a bad wOBA or whatever it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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