Lineup Optimization

[Chicago White Sox]

Realistically, I’d probably do something like this long-term:

1. Madrigal, 2B
2. Robert, CF
3. Moncada, 3B#
4. Vaughn, 1B
5. Jimenez, LF
6. Veteran, RF*
7. Anderson, SS
8. Collins/Sheets/Vet, DH*
9. McCann/Vet, C

That’s a ton of speed up-top.  I can’t even imagine dealing with those first three guys if I was an opposing pitcher.  While I’d prefer Moncada batting 2nd, he’s able to break up all the righties by batting 3rd.  That lineup would also have power across the board except Madrigal.  I still hope they go hard after Grandal because he’d be an ideal #6 hitter in that lineup.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Chicago White Sox

[pcq]

Maybe Chris Getz would be more receptive as mgr to analytics. 

[wegner]

31 minutes ago, poppysox said:

After a bit of time I believe that will be his spot.  His attributes are very Nellie Fox like.  I actually like Anderson leading off followed by Madrigal, Robert 3rd with Moncada 4th,  Eloy 5th and Jose 6th.  The speed of the first four would drive teams crazy.  Fun to play with various lineups.  I know this is considered old fashioned lineup construction but I like speed at the top and my best hitters in the RBI places.  We live in a HR era but I love speed coupled with power like this team is going to have.

The OBP, speed and power will be fun.

I agree with you that home runs are great but I love to see Timmy and Yoan run the bases.  And I think Madrigal will be right there with them.

[ptatc]

10 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

Because I can’t stand Renteria and his awful lineups, I put the Sox main regulars through a lineup optimizer online to see what their best line ups are using SLG % and wOBA  

The best lineup at 4.678 runs per game is Moncada, Anderson, Jay, Abreu, McCann, Eloy, Garcia, Castillo and Sanchez.  

Moncada and Anderson are pretty interchangeable as the computer really likes those two guys leading off. The computer doesn’t put speed in account but Id like to Anderson batting leadoff with Moncada behind him.

This optimizer also gives you the 30 best lineups and the 30 worst lineups. In 16 of those 30 worst lineups, Anderson is batting seventh. 

Can someone explain to me why Anderson is batting seventh? If I can get these lineups on a free website, certainly the Sox have the same data. 

Anderson batting 7th makes sense for a little due to his returning to form post injury. He looked like his timing and comfort was off. However, once he was doing well, I agree he needs to be moved up. 

I'm not generally a fan of the lineup optimizer.  It uses averages over a period of time and discounts individual players having nagging injuries, performance against certain pitchers or any other number of issues that players can have. 

[BackDoorBreach]

42 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Realistically, I’d probably do something like this long-term:

1. Madrigal, 2B
2. Robert, CF
3. Moncada, 3B#
4. Vaughn, 1B
5. Jimenez, LF
6. Veteran, RF*
7. Anderson, SS
8. Collins/Sheets/Vet, DH*
9. McCann/Vet, C

That’s a ton of speed up-top.  I can’t even imagine dealing with those first three guys if I was an opposing pitcher.  While I’d prefer Moncada batting 2nd, he’s able to break up all the righties by batting 3rd.  That lineup would also have power across the board except Madrigal.  I still hope they go hard after Grandal because he’d be an ideal #6 hitter in that lineup.

I really hope they go after Grandal as well on a 2 year deal and just rotate him from C/1B/DH.  He's probably my #2 want after Cole, I just don't think the Sox will go after him because McCann/Collins.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I'd bat Robert first next year, he's similar to Acuna and that has worked out pretty good for ATL.  If you don't have Madrigal in the 1 or 2 spot he's a 9 hole hitter.

Yep. And then Madrigal acts as a second lead off hitter in front of Robert when the order turns over.

[poppysox]

37 minutes ago, pcq said:

Maybe Chris Getz would be more receptive as mgr to analytics. 

Our manager at Winston Salem is an under 30 analytics guy named Justin Jirschele.  He's our analytics driven manager of the future.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Realistically, I’d probably do something like this long-term:

1. Madrigal, 2B
2. Robert, CF
3. Moncada, 3B#
4. Vaughn, 1B
5. Jimenez, LF
6. Veteran, RF*
7. Anderson, SS
8. Collins/Sheets/Vet, DH*
9. McCann/Vet, C

That’s a ton of speed up-top.  I can’t even imagine dealing with those first three guys if I was an opposing pitcher.  While I’d prefer Moncada batting 2nd, he’s able to break up all the righties by batting 3rd.  That lineup would also have power across the board except Madrigal.  I still hope they go hard after Grandal because he’d be an ideal #6 hitter in that lineup.

Robert is never going to be a second place hitter under Renteria...

[Jose Abreu]

8 hours ago, harkness99 said:

all you peeps putting Vaughn in the line-up

This isn't madden guys... dude has never even played in the minors, and likely many years from playing.

How has nobody corrected this yet? He has certainly played in the minors, he's already in A+, and barring injuries he'll be our 1B either late next season or early in 2021 

[poppysox]

When all the parts of our future lineup are on the team...you could pull names out of a hat and the lineup would look formidable.  Modern thought seems to have your best hitters batting high in the order in order to get the most at bats.  Former lineups featured speed at the top with your best hitters in the 3 and 4 spot.  I personally like old fashioned lineup construction.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I really hope they go after Grandal as well on a 2 year deal and just rotate him from C/1B/DH.  He's probably my #2 want after Cole, I just don't think the Sox will go after him because McCann/Collins.

I think that they should get Grandal as well. He and McCann can rotate in as C/DH and Collins can catch or rare occasion while being 1B/DH most of the time. They could even bring back Abreu on a 1 year deal as 1B-DH, given that Collins probably shouldn't start vs. LHP. 

[The Sir]

9 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I'd bat Robert first next year, he's similar to Acuna and that has worked out pretty good for ATL.  If you don't have Madrigal in the 1 or 2 spot he's a 9 hole hitter.

Acuna has 19 solo homeruns this year out of 27. I don’t know how that intersects with his batting order position, but he has 20 homeruns from the leadoff slot and 7 from the cleanup slot. I want Robert to hit homeruns with men on, which is why I’m wary of him leading off.

[joejoedairy]

11 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Acuna has 19 solo homeruns this year out of 27. I don’t know how that intersects with his batting order position, but he has 20 homeruns from the leadoff slot and 7 from the cleanup slot. I want Robert to hit homeruns with men on, which is why I’m wary of him leading off.

Springer leads off and it has worked pretty well for the Astros. 

Starting the game off up 1-0 is always nice. 

[ChiSox59]

4 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

How has nobody corrected this yet? He has certainly played in the minors, he's already in A+, and barring injuries he'll be our 1B either late next season or early in 2021 

Everyone else has him blocked.  

[mqr]

22 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Acuna has 19 solo homeruns this year out of 27. I don’t know how that intersects with his batting order position, but he has 20 homeruns from the leadoff slot and 7 from the cleanup slot. I want Robert to hit homeruns with men on, which is why I’m wary of him leading off.

Robert isn't going to have to hit behind a pitcher

Edited August 6, 2019 by mqr

[ron883]

5 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Yep. And then Madrigal acts as a second lead off hitter in front of Robert when the order turns over.

Don't agree with this. If he is a stud but isn't batting 1 or 2 because we have mega studs in Robert and Moncada there, what is wrong with him batting 6, 7, or 8? Get him more ABs than batting 9th. 

[fathom]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Realistically, I’d probably do something like this long-term:

1. Madrigal, 2B
2. Robert, CF
3. Moncada, 3B#
4. Vaughn, 1B
5. Jimenez, LF
6. Veteran, RF*
7. Anderson, SS
8. Collins/Sheets/Vet, DH*
9. McCann/Vet, C

That’s a ton of speed up-top.  I can’t even imagine dealing with those first three guys if I was an opposing pitcher.  While I’d prefer Moncada batting 2nd, he’s able to break up all the righties by batting 3rd.  That lineup would also have power across the board except Madrigal.  I still hope they go hard after Grandal because he’d be an ideal #6 hitter in that lineup.

I hope we can do much better than that at DH

[Boopa1219]

12 hours ago, HeHatesShe said:

Then why did Frank Thomas always bat 3rd?

Because the old school of thought says that you bat your best hitter third. 

The data says you best players higher up in the order. I’ll go with the data every time. 

[BackDoorBreach]

54 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Don't agree with this. If he is a stud but isn't batting 1 or 2 because we have mega studs in Robert and Moncada there, what is wrong with him batting 6, 7, or 8? Get him more ABs than batting 9th. 

He's a guy that could get on for Robert/Moncada when the lineup rolls over.  To be fair we really don't know what Madrigal will really be yet but it looks like high OBP/low slugging.  I think he'd be a perfect 9 hole guy that can extend an inning for the top of the order.

[Bob Sacamano]

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Realistically, I’d probably do something like this long-term:

1. Madrigal, 2B
2. Robert, CF
3. Moncada, 3B#
4. Vaughn, 1B
5. Jimenez, LF
6. Veteran, RF*
7. Anderson, SS
8. Collins/Sheets/Vet, DH*
9. McCann/Vet, C

That’s a ton of speed up-top.  I can’t even imagine dealing with those first three guys if I was an opposing pitcher.  While I’d prefer Moncada batting 2nd, he’s able to break up all the righties by batting 3rd.  That lineup would also have power across the board except Madrigal.  I still hope they go hard after Grandal because he’d be an ideal #6 hitter in that lineup.

I love Moncada in the 3-spot as well. Team needs a left-handed middle of the order bat so I'm perfectly fine sticking him there. I know he makes a great a number 2-hitter, but we're talking one spot down and behind guys who *should* be high OBP guys.

[poppysox]

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think that they should get Grandal as well. He and McCann can rotate in as C/DH and Collins can catch or rare occasion while being 1B/DH most of the time. They could even bring back Abreu on a 1 year deal as 1B-DH, given that Collins probably shouldn't start vs. LHP. 

This would be a very nice move getting Grandal.  What's the feeling on what he might cost.

[BackDoorBreach]

2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

This would be a very nice move getting Grandal.  What's the feeling on what he might cost.

He's making 18.25 million this year it looks like.

2 years around 40 million seems reasonable

[poppysox]

3 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He's making 18.25 million this year it looks like.

2 years around 40 million seems reasonable

I guess he has an option with them as well so might not be available even if we want him.

[BackDoorBreach]

Just now, poppysox said:

I guess he has an option with them as well so might not be available even if we want him.

Yeah mutual option, I thought he was a FA.

[poppysox]

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

Yeah mutual option, I thought he was a FA.

Thanks for checking.