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Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal

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6 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

They'll all say but but but but MANNY MACHADO!!  WHAT HAPPENED THERE!?!

But yah...I suspect things will change this offseason. But most simply just won't believe it until they see it, and the Sox have earned the skepticism.  

Machado was only a good signing if we could get him at a good price.  Overpays for anyone long-term can lead to calamity.  I like where we are.

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14 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because those fans thrive on negativity, and frankly, history is on their side.  

Sure. Sign Gerrit Cole this offseason, and many of us will happily say we were wrong about Jerry Reinsdorf.

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13 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Not really earth shattering news, but Frank is reporting that they're leaning towards NOT promoting LuBob after the AAA season concludes.

They aren't going to come out and just say it, especially right now.  No point in bringing him up now.

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17 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

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That will be me if they make the beyond idiotic decision to call these guys up in the month of September.  They cannot possibility be that dumb.  

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4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

That will be me if they make the beyond idiotic decision to call these guys up in the month of September.  They cannot possibility be that dumb.  

If they call them up it will be because extensions have been signed.  Stay calm.

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19 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

That will be me if they make the beyond idiotic decision to call these guys up in the month of September.  They cannot possibility be that dumb.  

The possibly exists.  This is the White Sox. 

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20 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

That will be me if they make the beyond idiotic decision to call these guys up in the month of September.  They cannot possibility be that dumb.  

I honestly cannot fathom why it would anger you that an employee is treated fairly by their employer.

Can you imagine if some internet strangers got angry because your boss gave you the promotion you deserved instead of exploiting you to pay you less for another year?

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I honestly cannot fathom why it would anger you that an employee is treated fairly by their employer.

Can you imagine if some internet strangers got angry because your boss gave you the promotion you deserved instead of exploiting you to pay you less for another year?

Because in a case like Robert, it was clear in June he was ready for ML pitching, especially considering the 2019 White Sox were rebuilding and had a gigantic hole in CF. 

However, the Sox FO has made the decision that playing the service time game is more important than ML experience. Fine, many teams play that same game, most fans accept it. So either play that game or don't. You're going to get him 100 ML PA's in September, in exchange for a year of service time? At that point it doesn't make much sense, they either should have done it early and not cared about the service time, or keep him down until next year (which is what is going to happen, Robert isn't coming up to MLB this season). 

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1 minute ago, Tony said:

Because in a case like Robert, it was clear in June he was ready for ML pitching, especially considering the 2019 White Sox were rebuilding and had a gigantic hole in CF. 

However, the Sox FO has made the decision that playing the service time game is more important than ML experience. Fine, many teams play that same game, most fans accept it. So either play that game or don't. You're going to get him 100 ML PA's in September, in exchange for a year of service time? At that point it doesn't make much sense, they either should have done it early and not cared about the service time, or keep him down until next year (which is what is going to happen, Robert isn't coming up to MLB this season). 

That's great, but I certainly would never be angry about an employee being treated more fairly than before.

People have a hard time separating their entertainment from the fact that these are employees. They shouldn't be exploited regardless of how much money they make.

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That's great, but I certainly would never be angry about an employee being treated more fairly than before.

People have a hard time separating their entertainment from the fact that these are employees. They shouldn't be exploited regardless of how much money they make.

Then be mad the Front Office, because in your scenario, that's exactly what they've done to Robert. 

(Also, the FO is playing by the rules put forth by the MLBPA. Be mad at Tony Clark for a shit deal)

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8 minutes ago, Tony said:

Then be mad the Front Office, because in your scenario, that's exactly what they've done to Robert. 

(Also, the FO is playing by the rules put forth by the MLBPA. Be mad at Tony Clark for a shit deal)

Yes, and I have stated numerous times that service time exploitation is a load of garbage, and fans that support it are supporting the exploitation of workers. It is against the rules but IMPOSSIBLE to prove - I'm not sure why people continually state it's not. It is very clearly against the rules as you can file a grevience against it. It's just impossible to prove when a player is "ready" because that is subjective and not universally defined.

 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, and I have stated numerous times that service time exploitation is a load of garbage, and fans that support it are supporting the exploitation of workers. It is against the rules but IMPOSSIBLE to prove - I'm not sure why people continually state it's not. It is very clearly against the rules as you can file a grevience against it. It's just impossible to prove when a player is "ready" because that is subjective and not universally defined.

 

Personal opinion, but that's just not a hill I'm going to die in. I'm not losing a ton of sleep of Luis Robert being stuck in AAA for a few months longer, but to teach their own. 

I've wanted Robert up since June. The service time thing doesn't mean much to me, ESPECIALLY since no one has any idea what the new CBA is going to look like by the time Robert becomes a FA, the only thing they know is the CBA is going to be much different than it is today. But again, the teams are playing chess while the MLBPA keeps getting their teeth kicked in. 

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Personal opinion, but that's just not a hill I'm going to die in. I'm not losing a ton of sleep of Luis Robert being stuck in AAA for a few months longer, but to teach their own. 

I've wanted Robert up since June. The service time thing doesn't mean much to me, ESPECIALLY since no one has any idea what the new CBA is going to look like by the time Robert becomes a FA, the only thing they know is the CBA is going to be much different than it is today. But again, the teams are playing chess while the MLBPA keeps getting their teeth kicked in. 

Yes, because many justify it by saying he makes more money than me and etc.

I don't care how much money you make, you should never be exploited by your employer to be paid less.

As I said, if this was you and your job I doubt you'd be as understanding.

It doesn't matter what the CBA looks like - all players under the current agreement would be grandfathered in. They cannot retroactively change the rules and time left a player has before becoming a FA.

MLB has, by far, the strongest union in professional sports. The mistake they made is they thought teams would want their best players on the roster - they didn't account for deliberate tanking and the suppressing of talent to elongate their control. Never trust your employer - document and define everything. That's the lesson learned.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That's great, but I certainly would never be angry about an employee being treated more fairly than before.

People have a hard time separating their entertainment from the fact that these are employees. They shouldn't be exploited regardless of how much money they make.

To equate people making millions with employees is a little disingenuous.  I understand your point but these are business decisions involving millions not one dollar per hour raises.  I imagine both parties involved have discussed ways to fairly offer an extension to come to the major leagues now while not harming the players eventual right to test the free agent waters.  Apparently they haven't found a compromise as of yet.  

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23 minutes ago, poppysox said:

To equate people making millions with employees is a little disingenuous.  I understand your point but these are business decisions involving millions not one dollar per hour raises.  I imagine both parties involved have discussed ways to fairly offer an extension to come to the major leagues now while not harming the players eventual right to test the free agent waters.  Apparently they haven't found a compromise as of yet.  

No it isn't, they still deserve to have rights. It's laughable that you think you shouldn't have the same workers rights if you make more money.

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29 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No it isn't, they still deserve to have rights. It's laughable that you think you shouldn't have the same workers rights if you make more money.

They do have rights.  They have the right to be represented by a union who negotiates their labor agreement.  Don't get mad at the FO for abiding by the agreement in place.  That's how the system works.  Surly you don't expect management to throw away millions just to be nice guys.

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28 minutes ago, poppysox said:

They do have rights.  They have the right to be represented by a union who negotiates their labor agreement.  Don't get mad at the FO for abiding by the agreement in place.  That's how the system works.  Surly you don't expect management to throw away millions just to be nice guys.

Nice guys?

No matter how many times you say it, this is not in lines with the agreement.

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22 hours ago, Tony said:

Because in a case like Robert, it was clear in June he was ready for ML pitching, especially considering the 2019 White Sox were rebuilding and had a gigantic hole in CF. 

However, the Sox FO has made the decision that playing the service time game is more important than ML experience. Fine, many teams play that same game, most fans accept it. So either play that game or don't. You're going to get him 100 ML PA's in September, in exchange for a year of service time? At that point it doesn't make much sense, they either should have done it early and not cared about the service time, or keep him down until next year (which is what is going to happen, Robert isn't coming up to MLB this season). 

Thank you for responding is my absence. 

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17 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Nice guys?

No matter how many times you say it, this is not in lines with the agreement.

You are working very hard to not understand the obvious.

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I really want to watch Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal play on the White Sox this year. But, I also don't want to watch the White Sox FA have to let players walk in 4 or 5 years because they have literally every player on the roster going to arbitration. I can be patient.

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On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 3:29 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No it isn't, they still deserve to have rights. It's laughable that you think you shouldn't have the same workers rights if you make more money.

The problem is that if an organization doesn't take advantage of service time rules when everyone else is doing it, you're putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage, especially for an organization with payroll limitations who would likely lose a guy to FA when his control is up.  Yeah, you can say "everyone else is doing it" isn't an excuse for treating employees poorly, but this is ultimately the system that the players' union signed off on in the CBA.  And the way teams have acted was hardly unforeseeable, so don't give me that.  Don't hate the player, hate the game.  

Edited by bighurt574
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