Dick Allen Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: LOL. The Padres have $101 million committed to 2020 payroll before arb. The White Sox have $15 million committed to 2020 before arb. Important facts. We will see what happens. Their "core" is just as good, and the Sox will have to spend some money to fill out the roster. We already know the track record of the people who will be making the decisions. One year, they hit on everything, and did pretty well. A couple years after that, they did fairly well, but it was over a decade ago....since? Not so good. They might have $15 million committed, but to think they will spend the rest wisely or if it is even possible for anyone to do that, is probably a big stretch. If the Sox had signed Machado, and Abreu re-signs, which is a given, the difference becomes insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: We will see what happens. Their "core" is just as good, and the Sox will have to spend some money to fill out the roster. We already know the track record of the people who will be making the decisions. One year, they hit on everything, and did pretty well. A couple years after that, they did fairly well, but it was over a decade ago....since? Not so good. They might have $15 million committed, but to think they will spend the rest wisely or if it is even possible for anyone to do that, is probably a big stretch. If the Sox had signed Machado, and Abreu re-signs, which is a given, the difference becomes insignificant. Ummm....the difference would still be over $40M in AAV, which is still just under a 50% increase. Not sure how anyone can describe that as insignificant. The Sox have boatloads of money to spend and a great young, cheap controllable core. Will they spend the money correctly and wisely? Who knows. History is on the naysayers side. But they're in a measurably more flexible and desirable situation than the Padres. The Sox highest AAV guy next season is paid less than a dude the Padres are paying who is out of baseball, and quite possibly in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 On 9/21/2019 at 9:54 AM, Jack Parkman said: I honestly don't care if they launch him for nothing this season. He's never going to reestablish his trade value anyway. Just move on and gain an extra 40 man spot. Sign Wheeler or Bumgarner to take his spot. Still go after Strasburg too. 31 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: We will see what happens. Their "core" is just as good, and the Sox will have to spend some money to fill out the roster. We already know the track record of the people who will be making the decisions. One year, they hit on everything, and did pretty well. A couple years after that, they did fairly well, but it was over a decade ago....since? Not so good. They might have $15 million committed, but to think they will spend the rest wisely or if it is even possible for anyone to do that, is probably a big stretch. If the Sox had signed Machado, and Abreu re-signs, which is a given, the difference becomes insignificant. Paddack and Tatis, Jr., established themselves, similar to Giolito and Moncada. The Padres still have a ton of minor league capital to utilize in making trades to go for another frontline pitcher to pair with Paddack, Gore (everyone in baseball would gladly take him as their top pitching prospect) and Richards. The White Sox have money, sure, but a limited number of really difference-making players to spend it on outside the Top 10-15 due to the plethora of extensions signed in the last calendar year. The big difference is the Dodgers vs. presence of small/mid-market teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Ummm....the difference would still be over $40M in AAV, which is still just under a 50% increase. Not sure how anyone can describe that as insignificant. The Sox have boatloads of money to spend and a great young, cheap controllable core. Will they spend the money correctly and wisely? Who knows. History is on the naysayers side. But they're in a measurably more flexible and desirable situation than the Padres. The Sox highest AAV guy next season is paid less than a dude the Padres are paying who is out of baseball, and quite possibly in prison. Ian Kinsler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: Ian Kinsler? Hector Olivera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Hector Olivera. https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/nl-west/san-diego-padres/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Hector Olivera. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2826984-why-the-2019-dodgers-are-paying-over-40-million-to-players-not-on-the-roster The Dodgers are paying Olivera $4.67 million this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2826984-why-the-2019-dodgers-are-paying-over-40-million-to-players-not-on-the-roster The Dodgers are paying Olivera $4.67 million this season. Padres paid him $4.57M in 17, $6.5M in 18, $7.5M in 19 and still owe him $8.5M in 2020. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olivehe01.shtml#all_br-salaries Dodgers also on the hook for $4.67M next season to Olivera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Padres paid him $4.57M in 17, $6.5M in 18, $7.5M in 19 and still owe him $8.5M in 2020. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olivehe01.shtml#all_br-salaries Dodgers also on the hook for $4.67M next season to Olivera. I’m sure the Jose Abreu contract for three years that nobody wants signed will eclipse $16 million, likely a similar number for just one season. That’s still roughly half our “new” wasted spending this year on Alonso, Jay, Herrera, Santana and Nova. We wasted $18 million on Herrera alone, which is probably worse than Olivera because he will block Hahn from spending on the pen while they wait on a “bounce back” year out of him. Edited October 2, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) @caulfield12 and @Dick Allen seem to think the Padres are in a better position for success over the next 5 years than the White Sox. OTH, I feel very confident that the White Sox will have more wins and playoff appearances than the Padres over that time span. This is not because of their respective young cores per se but the White Sox’ tremendous financial flexibility this winter as well as upcoming winters (rather than having blown their wad on Hosmer, Machado, Myers). Edited October 2, 2019 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: @caulfield12 and @Dick Allen seem to think the Padres are in a better position for success over the next 5 years than the White Sox. OTH, I feel very confident that the White Sox will have more wins and playoff appearances than the Padres over that time span. This is not because of their respective young cores per se but the White Sox’ tremendous financial flexibility this winter as well as upcoming winters (rather than having blown their wad on Hosmer, Machado, Myers). Myers isn’t a huge deal, they will trade him for 50 cents on the dollar by the trade deadline next year if he doesn’t rebound. Hosmer and Machado are the keys. That said, they have so much more pitching depth than the White Sox, especially at the minor league level and this year’s rookie class. As the playoffs demonstrate each year, it’s 75% about pitching and defense in the postseason. If you stacked up Tatis, Machado, Hosmer, Mejia, Renfroe, pre-2019 Myers, Urias, Naylor and Taylor Trammell (http://thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=203939 had a ROUGH start to his career with SD after trade)...you’d find a lot of things to like, if the pitching lives up to its billing. A lot will obviously come down to whether Trammell becomes Mike Cameron or Kenny Williams in CF. Margot finally proved he was better suited as a fourth OF this year. CJ Abrams also had a very impressive debut, but of course will ultimately need to prove himself in full season ball.(http://thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=222138) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Myers isn’t a huge deal, they will trade him for 50 cents on the dollar by the trade deadline next year if he doesn’t rebound. Hosmer and Machado are the keys. That said, they have so much more pitching depth than the White Sox, especially at the minor league level and this year’s rookie class. As the playoffs demonstrate each year, it’s 75% about pitching and defense in the postseason. If you stacked up Tatis, Machado, Hosmer, Mejia, Renfroe, pre-2019 Myers, Urias, Naylor and Taylor Trammell (http://thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=203939 had a ROUGH start to his career with SD after trade)...you’d find a lot of things to like, if the pitching lives up to its billing. A lot will obviously come down to whether Trammell becomes Mike Cameron or Kenny Williams in CF. Margot finally proved he was better suited as a fourth OF this year. CJ Abrams also had a very impressive debut, but of course will ultimately need to prove himself in full season ball.(http://thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=222138) So you think they’ll have more wins and playoff appearances than the Sox over the next 5 years? The rest of that stuff doesn’t matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 23 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: @caulfield12 and @Dick Allen seem to think the Padres are in a better position for success over the next 5 years than the White Sox. OTH, I feel very confident that the White Sox will have more wins and playoff appearances than the Padres over that time span. This is not because of their respective young cores per se but the White Sox’ tremendous financial flexibility this winter as well as upcoming winters (rather than having blown their wad on Hosmer, Machado, Myers). Their prospects are thought to be better. What I was getting at was the 2019 Padres were basically the 2019 White Sox if the White Sox signed Machado. The Sox would have won a few more games in all likelihood, but you wouldn't have heard embarrassed out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 The Padres are stacked with pitching in their system but are lacking positional depth iirc. They are going to have a much easier time trading to fill holes than we will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said: The Padres are stacked with pitching in their system but are lacking positional depth iirc. They are going to have a much easier time trading to fill holes than we will. They traded away Reyes because they already had Renfroe, Myers, Margot, Naylor, Jankowski, Cordero, etc. Now they have Trammell as well. If Urias and Mejia are for real, they’ll be fine with all that pitching...when it starts to turn the corner. And Gore is going to be a monster, as long as he stays healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: They traded away Reyes because they already had Renfroe, Myers, Margot, Naylor, Jankowski, Cordero, etc. Now they have Trammell as well. If Urias and Mejia are for real, they’ll be fine with all that pitching...when it starts to turn the corner. And Gore is going to be a monster, as long as he stays healthy. You still haven’t answered my question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 50 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: They traded away Reyes because they already had Renfroe, Myers, Margot, Naylor, Jankowski, Cordero, etc. Now they have Trammell as well. If Urias and Mejia are for real, they’ll be fine with all that pitching...when it starts to turn the corner. And Gore is going to be a monster, as long as he stays healthy. Xavier Edwards is another name in that system to look for. Kid has a Mardigal level hit tool and ++ speed. Also saw interviews with him, what a good kid with a great attitude. He'll be in the bigs one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dick Allen said: We will see what happens. Their "core" is just as good, and the Sox will have to spend some money to fill out the roster. We already know the track record of the people who will be making the decisions. One year, they hit on everything, and did pretty well. A couple years after that, they did fairly well, but it was over a decade ago....since? Not so good. They might have $15 million committed, but to think they will spend the rest wisely or if it is even possible for anyone to do that, is probably a big stretch. If the Sox had signed Machado, and Abreu re-signs, which is a given, the difference becomes insignificant. Tell me how their core is just as good. Tatis is the only young big league prospect that has excelled so far - I guess I'd say paddack as well. If the sox signed machado and abreu their payroll would be like 60 million. How are those the same place? Please tell me who the myers and hosmer contracts are on the white sox. Edited October 3, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: I’m sure the Jose Abreu contract for three years that nobody wants signed will eclipse $16 million, likely a similar number for just one season. That’s still roughly half our “new” wasted spending this year on Alonso, Jay, Herrera, Santana and Nova. We wasted $18 million on Herrera alone, which is probably worse than Olivera because he will block Hahn from spending on the pen while they wait on a “bounce back” year out of him. Um.. one guy is out of baseball and the other just had 125rbi 33 hr season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Myers isn’t a huge deal, they will trade him for 50 cents on the dollar by the trade deadline next year if he doesn’t rebound. Hosmer and Machado are the keys. That said, they have so much more pitching depth than the White Sox, especially at the minor league level and this year’s rookie class. As the playoffs demonstrate each year, it’s 75% about pitching and defense in the postseason. If you stacked up Tatis, Machado, Hosmer, Mejia, Renfroe, pre-2019 Myers, Urias, Naylor and Taylor Trammell (http://thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=203939 had a ROUGH start to his career with SD after trade)...you’d find a lot of things to like, if the pitching lives up to its billing. A lot will obviously come down to whether Trammell becomes Mike Cameron or Kenny Williams in CF. Margot finally proved he was better suited as a fourth OF this year. CJ Abrams also had a very impressive debut, but of course will ultimately need to prove himself in full season ball.(http://thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=222138) How will they trade Myers? Lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, kwolf68 said: Xavier Edwards is another name in that system to look for. Kid has a Mardigal level hit tool and ++ speed. Also saw interviews with him, what a good kid with a great attitude. He'll be in the bigs one day. No one has a madrigal level hit tool. Jesus christ. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: How will they trade Myers? Lol The same way any team does, discount him 50-75 cents on the dollar...but probably play him everyday the first half of 2020, and look at the back of his baseball card. They forced him into CF where he wasn’t comfortable defensively (Myers and Renfroe on both sides increased the pressure), gave him erratic playing time because Green was expected to get the team to play around .500, batted him all over the lineup. Usually players just don’t fall apart in the middle of their prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Usually players just don’t fall apart in the middle of their prime. It happens a fair amount. Here's just a quick list of players associated with the Sox that fell apart during their "prime years" - Rowand, Engel, Dye (had a resurgence), Dunn, Crede, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras (also had a resurgence). You can even make the argument for Frank, but Frank was still so good that he just transitioned into a pure power hitter after he lost all his bat speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: It happens a fair amount. Here's just a quick list of players associated with the Sox that fell apart during their "prime years" - Rowand, Engel, Dye (had a resurgence), Dunn, Crede, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras (also had a resurgence). You can even make the argument for Frank, but Frank was still so good that he just transitioned into a pure power hitter after he lost all his bat speed. Engel I’m assuming you are joking about, Rowland and Crede (you can add Jenks to the injuries list) were dogged by their physical limitations crashing into reality, but it’s still pretty rare for position players. Dunn was already 30 or 31 when he crashed. Myers is 28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 11 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I did read. People have said repeatedly his contract would pay for itself and it's just not true. Yes, someone said it may be short lived but then who cares? What's the point of bringing it up. I agreed to his point. Your comment was not needed or wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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