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Machado do-over

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On 9/10/2019 at 4:52 PM, ewokpelts said:

What? So he can opt out next offseason?

There's no way in hell Stanton is opting out of that contract. He'll never get anything close to it again. Do you think Stanton can beat 8/218 on the open market? I don't even think he'd get $200M. Hell I'm not even sure he'd get more than 5/150 if he opts out. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Scooter Gennett should not accept a spot as a bench piece unless he thinks he isn't healthy. Someone like Detroit or Baltimore will give him a couple million to start somewhere for them. If he comes out and is the hitter he was in 2018, he sets  himself up for a big payday. He is better off taking a little less money for a starting position than he is taking more money for a part time position with a contender unless he doesn't think he can stay healthy again.

Not necessarily. What he should do is realize the position he is in. Hurt all year traded then released by the team he was traded to. Guys like Wilmer Flores, Jonathan Schoop, Jason Kipnis, Brian Dozier  Starlin Castro, Josh Harrison and Ben Zobrist will all be in similar situations. Some of those guys are going to have to accept minor league deals. Schoop might be the only one to get a multi year deal. Castro has had a very strong 2nd half and a terrible 1st half.

 

Going into the 2019 season, Scooter Gennett was one of the more highly regarded players slated to become a part of the 2019-2020 Major League Baseball free agent class. Slashing a combined .303/.351/.508 (.859 OPS) with 50 home runs and 189 RBIs over two years with the Cincinnati Reds, he was one of the most productive second basemen in baseball.

Unfortunately, a severe groin strain limited his playing time and impacted his performance throughout the 2019 season. He only played 21 games with the Reds, slashing just .217/.236/.261 before being traded to the San Francisco Giants for a player to be named later. There, his performance improved, but not enough to keep him on the Giants roster for long, as he was released after just 21 games. Gennett landed on the open market two months earlier than anticipated and faces questions as to how he will fare as a free agent.

Gennett made $9.775 million in 2019.

 

http://www.baseballessential.com/news/2019/09/09/scooter-gennett-free-agent-question-mark/

So will teams wait him out to get a better understanding of his health or does he sign early to a one year deal for around $5-7M just to avoid a minor league deal ?

He could end up a bargain if he makes a full recovery he could be signed as a bench piece and end up being more even if the OF isn't in his future.

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2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

At this point any LH bat with pop that has any experience in the OF is an option especially if the contract isn't lengthy or very expensive. He put up some nice years before he got hurt. I'd consider him a very strong bounce back candidate.

I just feel he will sign as a sign and flip candidate with one of the many rebuilding teams as a 2B.

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3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I just feel he will sign as a sign and flip candidate with one of the many rebuilding teams as a 2B.

If Madrigal struggles he could be the starting 2nd baseman and he probably would be at the beginning of the season if healthy. There's also the chance of him starting in RF if his groin allows either. Surely that would be attractive to him. 1 year plus a team option.

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1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If Madrigal struggles he could be the starting 2nd baseman and he probably would be at the beginning of the season if healthy. There's also the chance of him starting in RF if his groin allows either. Surely that would be attractive to him. 1 year plus a team option.

I don't know. 1 year as starting 2B possibly traded to contender to start is probably tempting.

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1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

I don't know. 1 year as starting 2B possibly traded to contender to start is probably tempting.

I won't argue about which option he'd rather take. I mean at this point he should take the most money that will also allow some freedom should he bounce back .

 

 

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As I said in one of the Machado threads, he’s still got some work to do to hit 3 fWAR this season. Currently sitting at 2.6 and his wRC+ is down to 107, along with an OPS of below 800. If the Sox had signed this guy, people would be ripping Hahn right now.

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On 9/10/2019 at 2:58 PM, Jack Parkman said:

I agree, but I think they might pull the trigger if it doesn't progress far enough quickly enough going forward. If it gets through 2021 with no playoffs I think Hahn gets whacked. 

JR  doesn't whack his loyalist employees.  He promotes them.

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1 hour ago, Flash said:

Machado hitting .259 w/.795 OPS. Still like him but it appears we may have dodged a bullet.

His shitty attitude screamed red flags. He just seems like the type of guy to get a deal, stop caring and get fat. He has yet to get fat though. 

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1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

His shitty attitude screamed red flags. He just seems like the type of guy to get a deal, stop caring and get fat. He has yet to get fat though. 

Yep. Been saying this for nearly a year now and he has yet to prove me wrong. I wouldn’t take this guy and his salary on even if the Padres gave him to the Sox for no player in return. His contract carries negative value imo. It will be an interesting comparison in future years seeing how the Padres approach to their rebuild compares to the Sox. They’ve had a stronger/deeper farm system over the past few years. Yet, will the mega signings of Hosmer and Machado act as anchors that ultimately limit their potential and result in less success than the Sox over the next 5 years, a team that has preserved their financial flexibility to this point in the rebuild?

Edited by JUSTgottaBELIEVE
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2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yep. Been saying this for nearly a year now and he has yet to prove me wrong. I wouldn’t take this guy and his salary on even if the Padres gave him to the Sox for no player in return. His contract carries negative value imo. It will be an interesting comparison in future years seeing how the Padres approach to their rebuild compares to the Sox. They’ve had a stronger/deeper farm system over the past few years but will the mega signings of Hosmer and Machado ultimately limit their potential and result in less success than the Sox over the next 5 years?

I think you are right on the money with this post.

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3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yep. Been saying this for nearly a year now and he has yet to prove me wrong. I wouldn’t take this guy and his salary on even if the Padres gave him to the Sox for no player in return. His contract carries negative value imo. It will be an interesting comparison in future years seeing how the Padres approach to their rebuild compares to the Sox. They’ve had a stronger/deeper farm system over the past few years. Yet, will the mega signings of Hosmer and Machado act as anchors that ultimately limit their potential and result in less success than the Sox over the next 5 years, a team that has preserved their financial flexibility to this point in the rebuild?

Apples and oranges having the Dodgers in the same division.

They’re basically even (organizationally) right now, because they have the prospect depth remaining to get nearly anyone whereas the White Sox have the financial flexibility...but the Wild Card is the only realistic possibility for 2020 and probably 2021 as well.

Edited by caulfield12

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43 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Apples and oranges having the Dodgers in the same division.

They’re basically even (organizationally) right now, because they have the prospect depth remaining to get nearly anyone whereas the White Sox have the financial flexibility...but the Wild Card is the only realistic possibility for 2020 and probably 2021 as well.

The Dodgers are tough but by no means unbeatable. They only won 92 games during 2018 and the Rockies finished 1 game behind them. A couple of injuries here and there and some breakouts from your guys and you can challenge them, but you have to do it well. 

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17 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Apples and oranges having the Dodgers in the same division.

They’re basically even (organizationally) right now, because they have the prospect depth remaining to get nearly anyone whereas the White Sox have the financial flexibility...but the Wild Card is the only realistic possibility for 2020 and probably 2021 as well.

Overcoming an annual expenditure of $50M between two players (Hosmer and Machado) that combine to produce 2-3 fWAR annually is not an easy task for a mid market team like the Padres.

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29 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Overcoming an annual expenditure of $50M between two players (Hosmer and Machado) that combine to produce 2-3 fWAR annually is not an easy task for a mid market team like the Padres.

It's an impossible burden and the reason I say we dodged a bullet with Machado and Harper.

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On 9/11/2019 at 5:41 PM, Jack Parkman said:

There's no way in hell Stanton is opting out of that contract. He'll never get anything close to it again. Do you think Stanton can beat 8/218 on the open market? I don't even think he'd get $200M. Hell I'm not even sure he'd get more than 5/150 if he opts out. 

Depends on how much you think he would want to play for a sad sack organization like the white Sox. Don’t forget he suffered in Miami for years under a horrible owner. 

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3 hours ago, poppysox said:

It's an impossible burden and the reason I say we dodged a bullet with Machado and Harper.

I wouldn’t say impossible but it certainly makes things much more difficult. They are going to need insane production from their farm system to make it work with their assumed payroll constraints. Hosmer/Machado will likely account for 35-45% of their team payroll over the next several years. That’s a big number.

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On 9/12/2019 at 7:11 AM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

As I said in one of the Machado threads, he’s still got some work to do to hit 3 fWAR this season. Currently sitting at 2.6 and his wRC+ is down to 107, along with an OPS of below 800. If the Sox had signed this guy, people would be ripping Hahn right now.

Ya think. 🙂

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On 9/12/2019 at 6:11 AM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

As I said in one of the Machado threads, he’s still got some work to do to hit 3 fWAR this season. Currently sitting at 2.6 and his wRC+ is down to 107, along with an OPS of below 800. If the Sox had signed this guy, people would be ripping Hahn right now.

I said it right after the Padres signed him...but Machado chose the wrong home park to play in. Petco is heavily supressing his numbers. He's got a .359 wOBA on the road and a .303 wOBA at home. I said I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with a .340 wOBA this year and it's looking like he'll do even worse than that.

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2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I said it right after the Padres signed him...but Machado chose the wrong home park to play in. Petco is heavily supressing his numbers. He's got a .359 wOBA on the road and a .303 wOBA at home. I said I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with a .340 wOBA this year and it's looking like he'll do even worse than that.

He chose the home park of the team who offered him the most money. Can't blame him for that. But I do agree that his stats would probably look a lot better if he signed with the Sox and played half his games in a hitter's park.

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2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

The fact that Yoan's got twice the amount of fWAR as Machado does make me feel great though.

The Sox not getting Machado will probably end up being a blessing in disguise. But still, there was no reason for the Sox not to sign him at the time and they better spend the money they were planning on giving him on a stud pitcher this offseason. They can't sit on the sidelines anymore. It's time to put a winning team on the field.

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