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2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

They should always be looking to improve, but when you have a generational talent like Robert in CF, you can still win with a relatively light hitting RF. 

Man I hope Robert is a monster from day 1 next late April.  I'm talking 270/320/520 with elite defense and baserunning.  Gimme a 4 WAR season as a rookie.  

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3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

They should always be looking to improve, but when you have a generational talent like Robert in CF, you can still win with a relatively light hitting RF. 

Not really. The best teams have a guy who can at the very least hit HRs at every position. 

The Astros and Yankees have players that can rake on every position on the field. That's the bar. You can't get away with slap hitters in today's environment. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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16 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m not sure why you’re so focused on improving 2b/3b. Quite frankly, that’s the least of this team’s concerns and the infield overall is its biggest strength. Address the pitching, RF, and DH and then we can talk about 2b/3b.

Amen!  Focus on the stuff we need...not the parts that aren't broken.

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8 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

They should always be looking to improve, but when you have a generational talent like Robert in CF, you can still win with a relatively light hitting RF. 

No matter which team you root for...there are a maximum number of dollars available to improve the team.  If you choose to offer huge contracts to several players like lets say Cole, Strasburg and Grandal...you might need Engel or Garcia in RF.  Maximum utilization of minimal resources.

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3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

No matter which team you root for...there are a maximum number of dollars available to improve the team.  If you choose to offer huge contracts to several players like lets say Cole, Strasburg and Grandal...you might need Engel or Garcia in RF.  Maximum utilization of minimal resources.

Even if the Sox spent 90 million total per year on those guys you'd expect 20-30 million left to fill out the roster.  This is going to be a telling offseason if the payroll isn't bumped into the top 10 range expect a lot of pain going forward.  A lot.

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33 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'd expect Madrigal at best to do something like 280/320/380.  Frankly I'd expect his season to look a lot like Yolmer's this year.  Maybe with better more consistent defense and a few more points on the triple slash.  In his prime Madrigal should be an excellent starter but as a rookie I think he's going to be about 1.5 WAR.

Sox should be looking to bring in stud hitters at DH/RF.  We've talked endlessly about the options.  Just get it done.

If Madrigal is hitting .280 I would certainly hope his OBP is in the .340-.350 range. Dude knows the strike zone. The only way his OBP should be that low is if his batting average is down near .250 because of weak contact.

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2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Even if the Sox spent 90 million total per year on those guys you'd expect 20-30 million left to fill out the roster.  This is going to be a telling offseason if the payroll isn't bumped into the top 10 range expect a lot of pain going forward.  A lot.

I'm trying to make a point that if you overpay someplace … something else has to give.  I hope the Sox spend 170 million additionally.  Still can't have every toy available.  RH will have choices to make no matter what the budget.

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25 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Not really. The best teams have a guy who can at the very least hit HRs at every position. 

The Astros and Yankees have players that can rake on every position on the field. That's the bar. You can't get away with slap hitters in today's environment. 

Yet, the Astros are starting Reddick, Marsinick and Brantley, who are good hitters, but not exactly world beaters. The Rays start several players with sub .800 OPS' and have still managed to win 90 games. As usual, you're grossly overstating your position. 

Edited by TaylorStSox
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27 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Man I hope Robert is a monster from day 1 next late April.  I'm talking 270/320/520 with elite defense and baserunning.  Gimme a 4 WAR season as a rookie.  

I hope so too, but this team probably peaks in 21 and 22. There's bit of time. 

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14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If Madrigal is hitting .280 I would certainly hope his OBP is in the .340-.350 range. Dude knows the strike zone. The only way his OBP should be that low is if his batting average is down near .250 because of weak contact.

I don't think MLB pitchers are going to mess around and allow him that walk rate.  Not until he can prove he can turn on a fastball anyways.

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33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Not really. The best teams have a guy who can at the very least hit HRs at every position. 

The Astros and Yankees have players that can rake on every position on the field. That's the bar. You can't get away with slap hitters in today's environment. 

Nellie Fox was league MVP in 1959.  The game has changed...but a player like him would play on a championship team today.  There are slap hitters...and then there are slap hitters.  

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3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Nellie Fox was league MVP in 1959.  The game has changed...but a player like him would play on a championship team today.  There are slap hitters...and then there are slap hitters.  

I don't even think Nellie Fox would get a look in the Majors today. If he did, he certainly would never get MVP votes. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

I don't even think Nellie Fox would get a look in the Majors today. 

Jesus christ. I'm out of this one. You're gonna get torn to shreds. 

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2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Jesus christ. I'm out of this one. You're gonna get torn to shreds. 

He had a .710 OPS and hit 35 HR in 19 years. That wouldn't get it done in today's game. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

He had a .710 OPS and hit 35 HR in 19 years. That wouldn't get it done in today's game. 

He had a career .348 OBP, it was .363 over a 10 year prime period, and he had 3 full seasons of a .400+ OBP. Along with good defense I will take that any day of the week and in a double header on Sunday.

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20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He had a .710 OPS and hit 35 HR in 19 years. That wouldn't get it done in today's game. 

Three weeks ago, weren't you captaining the "a player like Madrigal is valuable in today's game" boat?

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31 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Three weeks ago, weren't you captaining the "a player like Madrigal is valuable in today's game" boat?

Yes. Madrigal being useful completely depends on how many 2B and 3B he hits. If he puts up a .740 OPS while hitting .310+ It's fine. Gap power is ok. If Madrigal is OPSing like .680 then that's not a good player. 

When I said that Fox wouldn't get a look in today's game I said that because he was not that good early in his career. He would have been written off as AAAA fodder before his best years and his 1951 would have been considered a statistical outlier. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't even think Nellie Fox would get a look in the Majors today. If he did, he certainly would never get MVP votes. 

Jack...Jack...Jack...what are we going to do with you.  Please reconsider this ridiculous position.

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Jack...Jack...Jack...what are we going to do with you.  Please reconsider this ridiculous position.

It would depend on the team. I'm not entirely sure he'd get even a look in MLB today. 

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9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It would depend on the team. I'm not entirely sure he'd get even a look in MLB today. 

Dude was an all star with an .800 OPS at age 23. People don't give up on kids when they're age 21-22.

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23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Dude was an all star with an .800 OPS at age 23. People don't give up on kids when they're age 21-22.

In an era without a juiced ball and with a higher pitcher's mound.  And when he was with the White Sox, he played half of his games in spacious Comiskey Park.

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6 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

We have a good shot at having plus hitters at 3rd, SS, 2nd, 1st, LF and CF. We don't need all stars at every position to win. RF is a hole, but not an insurmountable hole. I don't think this team will struggle to score runs in this environment. 

We need as much quality pitching as we can get our hot little hands on.

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7 minutes ago, poppysox said:

We need as much quality pitching as we can get our hot little hands on.

They need both pitching and hitting. Honestly I wouldn't mind if they signed 2 pitchers this offseason just to make a couple of the ones that they have available for trade. Kopech goes nowhere. I could see Rodon being non-tendered or moved to the bullpen. 

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

They need both pitching and hitting. Honestly I wouldn't mind if they signed 2 pitchers this offseason just to make a couple of the ones that they have available for trade. Kopech goes nowhere. I could see Rodon being non-tendered or moved to the bullpen. 

Pretty sure Rodon will pitch for us just enough to prove himself healthy and packaged off.  His agent is just difficult to make a deal with... especially with his health history.  Let some other sucker deal with the Boras crap.

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