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Machado do-over

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Just now, Dick Allen said:

I would have taken either one. Basically, you wind up the same in the end because if Machado was here, there's a good chance Moncada stayed at 2B this season and moved to RF next.  Remember when some thought the Sox would sign both? 

LMFAO

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17 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Let me just ask this to the Machado apologists, at what point will you admit the Sox dodged a major bullet by missing on him? If his 2020 and 2021 seasons are comparable to his 2019 season will that be the turning point?

Just curious because if the Sox had given him the same contract as the Padres, and he just had the season he had, Hahn and Kenny would be getting roasted right now.

I'll admit it if he doesn't opt out after 5 years.

If he plays well enough to opt out in five, the cost would have neither prevented them from signing additional free agents nor extending their emerging core.

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30 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Let me just ask this to the Machado apologists, at what point will you admit the Sox dodged a major bullet by missing on him? If his 2020 and 2021 seasons are comparable to his 2019 season will that be the turning point?

Just curious because if the Sox had given him the same contract as the Padres, and he just had the season he had, Hahn and Kenny would be getting roasted right now.

He still put up 3 WAR in a down year.  So, he underplayed about 3 million dollars out of the 30 he earned this year.  I wouldn't call that dodging a bullet when the Sox are one of the worst HR hitting teams in baseball and have defensive issues.  

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12 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He still put up 3 WAR in a down year.  So, he underplayed about 3 million dollars out of the 30 he earned this year.  I wouldn't call that dodging a bullet when the Sox are one of the worst HR hitting teams in baseball and have defensive issues.  

I also think if they had signed him or Harper, fan interest would have rapidly picked up. They would have sold more tickets, and more parking spaces, and more beer, and more churros. It might have been short lived, but it would have happened. 

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I never thought that the Sox were serious about shelling out $300+M for either Machado or Harper, and still believe that the Sox's reported contract offer(s) to Machado were either planted by the Sox front office to give fans the impression that they were trying to sign him or by Machado's agent as a bargaining tactic. JR has never spent more than $69M on a single contract, and the idea that he'd suddenly spend $300M seems really unbelievable to me.

Given how this organization's young (and not terribly expensive) position players have developed, our current need for starting pitching, and the reality of the organization's payroll limitations, I have to say that I'm really happy that neither of these two are in a Sox uniform. If only the Sox front office didn't beclown itself with the stupid Alonso/Jay signings, I'd say that they did the right thing.

I really enjoyed watching this team this season and am looking forward to 2020.

Edited by Black_Jack29
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23 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He still put up 3 WAR in a down year.  So, he underplayed about 3 million dollars out of the 30 he earned this year.  I wouldn't call that dodging a bullet when the Sox are one of the worst HR hitting teams in baseball and have defensive issues.  

Man, to those of us who don't really care about WAR (too complicated, baseball is supposed to be fun, not mathematics) ... Manny had a decent to above average year. Marcus Semien hit one more homer than Manny. He only knocked in 85 runs and he only hit .256. I guess his 65 BBs make him worth his money. Not a bad amount of walks. Arguably if he played in the Cell he'd have blasted more homers, maybe 40 to 50. I think Hahn comes out looking good, though, in not signing Manny.

Edited by greg775

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32 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He still put up 3 WAR in a down year.  So, he underplayed about 3 million dollars out of the 30 he earned this year.  I wouldn't call that dodging a bullet when the Sox are one of the worst HR hitting teams in baseball and have defensive issues.  

So again, if next season is comparable to this season it would still have been fine if the Sox signed him? That’s a low bar to set for a $300M player imo.

I guess time will tell but he’s certainly not off to a great start with that contract. He did recently buy a ridiculous mansion in Miami so he’s got that going for him at least,

Edited by JUSTgottaBELIEVE
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49 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Man, to those of us who don't really care about WAR (too complicated, baseball is supposed to be fun, not mathematics) ... Manny had a decent to above average year. Marcus Semien hit one more homer than Manny. He only knocked in 85 runs and he only hit .256. I guess his 65 BBs make him worth his money. Not a bad amount of walks. Arguably if he played in the Cell he'd have blasted more homers, maybe 40 to 50. I think Hahn comes out looking good, though, in not signing Manny.

 The official anthem of greg775 and volehoopster

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1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He still put up 3 WAR in a down year.  So, he underplayed about 3 million dollars out of the 30 he earned this year.  I wouldn't call that dodging a bullet when the Sox are one of the worst HR hitting teams in baseball and have defensive issues.  

Man, people really need to stop citing the $10m/WAR figure as if that's how you analyze it. 3 WAR is not worth 27 million.

I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said, but that's not what teams were paying for 1 WAR at time of signing - it's what teams pay on average for WAR based on all FA and their production throughout their contract. Teams are more than likely looking to get about 5-6 WAR out of the front end years on a 30 million/year contract. Those numbers are skewed by older contracts to guys like pujols.

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2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If he’s underperforming already, what are years 6 thru 10 going to look like?

Guys do have bad years for all sorts of reasons.  He’s at an age that you’d likely expect a return to form next year.  No guarantees obviously, but I’d still take on his contract right now if the Padres were willing to unload for nothing.

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Guys do have bad years for all sorts of reasons.  He’s at an age that you’d likely expect a return to form next year.  No guarantees obviously, but I’d still take on his contract right now if the Padres were willing to unload for nothing.

Yeesh, and you’d likely be the only GM willing to do so.

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On 9/30/2019 at 1:06 PM, Dick Allen said:

I also think if they had signed him or Harper, fan interest would have rapidly picked up. They would have sold more tickets, and more parking spaces, and more beer, and more churros. It might have been short lived, but it would have happened. 

That’s exactly what happened in San Diego and Philadelphia. The two teams with the largest increase in attendance from 2018 to 2019. 

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One year after signing Machado ... do you think the Padres are happy they signed him? Or would they dump him in a second if there are any takers? I'm all for Jerry having a $150 million payroll. Personally I'd prefer it go to several players, adding up to 150 million and hire a stellar manager to lead us to the WS title.

Face it if you have a great manager (we should hire Maddon or Joe G NOW) you don't need as many of the mega $$ superstars. We have a small window here. I laugh when I hear some fans willing to go .500 next year. Why in the heck would you want to waste a lineup with as many stars as we're going to have. The time to win is now.

But you need good instruction. Is Coop outdated and lousy? Obviously you can do much better than Ricky. 

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I don’t think you can say Machado had a down year. He had a typical year. His career WRC+ prior to 2019 was 105, counting only the road splits. The hitters haven in Baltimore  put him at 130 WRC+ for career home games. That wasn’t going to happen in San Diego. 

Edited by Baker

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All things considered, the Sox hold it 100% in their own hands to make up for last offseason. Sox can thrive without Machado, but it’s going to require attracting some premium free agents. 

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

 All things considered, the Sox hold it 100% in their own hands to make up for last offseason. Sox can thrive without Machado, but it’s going to require attracting some premium free agents. 

The Sox have as much or more free agent AMMO as any team.  The big money teams have luxury tax issues and expensive players they are already paying.  We can get Cole or any free agent we desire.  There is no excuse not to have a great team next year.  Jerry...Spend the money!

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I admit that it doesn't bother me as much that we missed out on him as it did about 7 months ago. I still would expect Many to improve going forward, but yeah if you're a Padres fan, there probably is some reason for concern.

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17 hours ago, ewokpelts said:

That’s exactly what happened in San Diego and Philadelphia. The two teams with the largest increase in attendance from 2018 to 2019. 

This numbers means nothing if the contracts impede on winning going forward. That one year attendance bump would be cancelled out by the decline caused by bad contracts weighing down your payroll and preventing you from winning.

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49 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This numbers means nothing if the contracts impede on winning going forward. That one year attendance bump would be cancelled out by the decline caused by bad contracts weighing down your payroll and preventing you from winning.

You should read before you post. And not just my reply. 

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12 hours ago, poppysox said:

The Sox have as much or more free agent AMMO as any team.  The big money teams have luxury tax issues and expensive players they are already paying.  We can get Cole or any free agent we desire.  There is no excuse not to have a great team next year.  Jerry...Spend the money!

No excuse. But the Sox have a reason they won’t spend. It’s called jerry reinsdorf. 

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23 minutes ago, ewokpelts said:

You should read before you post. And not just my reply. 

I did read.

People have said repeatedly his contract would pay for itself and it's just not true. 

Yes, someone said it may be short lived but then who cares? What's the point of bringing it up.

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6 hours ago, Sarava said:

I admit that it doesn't bother me as much that we missed out on him as it did about 7 months ago. I still would expect Many to improve going forward, but yeah if you're a Padres fan, there probably is some reason for concern.

Padres are in a tough spot with these contracts. They built a great farm but their decisions with a few of these big contracts will ultimately decrease their chances of sustained success.

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7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The funny thing is, they pretty much are the National League version of the White Sox. A lot of prospects, they sign Machado....both around .500 at the All Star break, both win around 70 games. SD says if it happens again, heads will roll. The White Sox think things couldn't be better aligned. 

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