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Machado do-over

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Still don't understand why we'd be getting Bumgarner without significantly overpaying the rest of the NL..particularly teams west of the MIssissippi.

He could theoretically be convinced if we were also making a commitment to bring in X Y Z other "high level" free agents to create a more competitive team (see Robertson/Cabrera/LaRoche), but would he realistically sign were he to be the only significant addition, and wait at least one year for a playoff run?

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I'm ok with Bumgarner not being convinced, and signing elsewhere. He feels like his best days are probably behind him. If the Sox truly want to make a statement, they should target Cole or Strasburg. It feels unlikely though.

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With the way the Nationals are playing right now, I'm not as sure that Strasburg opts out anymore. 

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37 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

With the way the Nationals are playing right now, I'm not as sure that Strasburg opts out anymore. 

If he think's he can get more money he's going to opt out. How the nationals play has nothing to do with it. 

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Just now, mqr said:

If he think's he can get more money he's going to opt out. How the nationals play has nothing to do with it. 

Do you think it's a definite thing that he can get more than 4/100 with his injury history on the open market? 

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Do you think it's a definite thing that he can get more than 4/100 with his injury history on the open market? 

No, but that doesn't mean the team's performance is weighing on the decision. Boras is going to tell him where the money is, and he's going to listen. 

Edited by mqr

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2 minutes ago, mqr said:

No, but that doesn't mean the team's performance is weighing on the decision. 

That is how much is left on his contract. I waver back and forth about whether or not he can beat the 4/100. If he thinks it's iffy I do think team performance holds weight. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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23 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I can see him opting out and resigning with the Nats.  

I think Padres get him 

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The Pads are going to be active on the pitching market but I'm not sure if they have it in them to hand out another big money contract.  I think they trade for a pitcher or two which will also help break up the log jam they have in the minors.  

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7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

His fWAR this season is closer to Yolmer Sanchez than it is to Yoan Moncada 😱

Dodged a bullet.

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1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Dodged a bullet.

Meanwhile, White Sox RF/DH have combined for -5 fWAR this season and Harper sits at 3.6. Yet, many still insist Machado is/was the better fit. What am I missing here?

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4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Meanwhile, White Sox RF/DH have combined for -5 fWAR this season and Harper sits at 3.6. Yet, many still insist Machado is/was the better fit. What am I missing here?

Neither Machado or Harper where good fits for the money.  Any competent right fielder would have improved the offensive massively at a fraction of the cost of Harper.  

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1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Neither Machado or Harper where good fits for the money.  Any competent right fielder would have improved the offensive massively at a fraction of the cost of Harper.  

Considering the black holes in RF and DH the Sox have had in recent years (minus the one fluke Avi season), $25M AAV for a player like Harper really isn’t bad value to improve those areas. Especially with his stick, you could slide him to DH over the last few years of his contract as his defense in RF erodes. Then of course is the marketing aspect, which helps offset the salary burden as well.

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5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Neither Machado or Harper where good fits for the money.  Any competent right fielder would have improved the offensive massively at a fraction of the cost of Harper.  

I guess, with all of the disappointment of last year, the Sox are right. Neither was worth the money. The problem is, you could say that about every major FA contract ever, with the lone exception of A-Rod with Texas and Manny Ramirez with the Sawx. Both were on roids though, so that skews things significantly. 

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Scherzer was worth every penny of his contract, Sabathia as well, Greinke still is pretty good.

Position player wise you‘d have to go back to the Carlos Beltran contract.

Overall FA  pitchers have fared way better though.

Sox better sign Cole instead of a position player :lol:

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12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I guess, with all of the disappointment of last year, the Sox are right. Neither was worth the money. The problem is, you could say that about every major FA contract ever, with the lone exception of A-Rod with Texas and Manny Ramirez with the Sawx. Both were on roids though, so that skews things significantly. 

My personnel preference is to use free agency to fill holes with competent players.  The economics are terrible in free agency for shopping for stars.  I love that the Sox due to the rebuild have built a stable of possible stars in Gio,Kopech, Anderson, Moncada, Robert, Collins, Madrigal, Lopez, Cease and Eloy.  They have used free agency to find nice complementary pieces in Colome & McCann.  Not at all saying not to sign a Cole...but if the price is out of line... I have no problem with a Wheeler type.

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32 minutes ago, poppysox said:

My personnel preference is to use free agency to fill holes with competent players.  The economics are terrible in free agency for shopping for stars.  I love that the Sox due to the rebuild have built a stable of possible stars in Gio,Kopech, Anderson, Moncada, Robert, Collins, Madrigal, Lopez, Cease and Eloy.  They have used free agency to find nice complementary pieces in Colome & McCann.  Not at all saying not to sign a Cole...but if the price is out of line... I have no problem with a Wheeler type.

Wheeler is going to get a qualifying offer which means he's going to cost us a pick.  

I want Cole or Strasburg.  If we are going to need 2 I'd want Bum on a 2 year deal or 3 year with club option.

I wouldn't be against trading for a decent controllable Lefty but Idk who that would be with our lack of prospect depth.

Edited by BackDoorBreach

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29 minutes ago, poppysox said:

My personnel preference is to use free agency to fill holes with competent players.  The economics are terrible in free agency for shopping for stars.  I love that the Sox due to the rebuild have built a stable of possible stars in Gio,Kopech, Anderson, Moncada, Robert, Collins, Madrigal, Lopez, Cease and Eloy.  They have used free agency to find nice complementary pieces in Colome & McCann.  Not at all saying not to sign a Cole...but if the price is out of line... I have no problem with a Wheeler type.

I'm really coming over to this side of the argument. Baseball is such a weird sport.  In 2012 it looked like the Angels might be on the verge of something...they looked at 19 year old Mike Trout and said...wow we have to build something around this guys  so they pushed all the chips in and signed Albert Pujolos for 10/$240.  They had 25 year old Mark Trumbo who had hit 31 doubles and 29 homers in his rookie year, Torii Hunter who would have a 5.5 WAR in RF, and a pitching staff of Dan Haren, Ervin Santana, Zach Greinke, CJ Wilson and Jerred Weaver.  They had stars all over the place...and they finished 3rd and only won 88 games (Trout had a 10.5 War that year)...I think largely because they had too many guys that were worthless.  The White Sox look like they might have all the stars they need...but need to build depth.  Replacing horrible with competent seems like a smart strategy...and the Sox still have a lot of horrible around.  

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2 hours ago, poppysox said:

My personnel preference is to use free agency to fill holes with competent players.  The economics are terrible in free agency for shopping for stars.  I love that the Sox due to the rebuild have built a stable of possible stars in Gio,Kopech, Anderson, Moncada, Robert, Collins, Madrigal, Lopez, Cease and Eloy.  They have used free agency to find nice complementary pieces in Colome & McCann.  Not at all saying not to sign a Cole...but if the price is out of line... I have no problem with a Wheeler type.

Colome was a trade...

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1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm really coming over to this side of the argument. Baseball is such a weird sport.  In 2012 it looked like the Angels might be on the verge of something...they looked at 19 year old Mike Trout and said...wow we have to build something around this guys  so they pushed all the chips in and signed Albert Pujolos for 10/$240.  They had 25 year old Mark Trumbo who had hit 31 doubles and 29 homers in his rookie year, Torii Hunter who would have a 5.5 WAR in RF, and a pitching staff of Dan Haren, Ervin Santana, Zach Greinke, CJ Wilson and Jerred Weaver.  They had stars all over the place...and they finished 3rd and only won 88 games (Trout had a 10.5 War that year)...I think largely because they had too many guys that were worthless.  The White Sox look like they might have all the stars they need...but need to build depth.  Replacing horrible with competent seems like a smart strategy...and the Sox still have a lot of horrible around.  

Fine, then be the Twins in 2019.

The problem with that is coming up short in the playoffs and who’s capable of actually picking 2nd/3rd Tier free agents like its 2004-2005 all over again?

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