bmags Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Quin said: "Analytics would say to bat Tim Anderson higher up in the order in Yonder Alonso lower, but fat guys DH and DHs are #4 hitters. My gut says so." This actually illustrates his nonsense most. Where was his “we have to give other guys a chance they can prove cleanup even if you think they can’t” when he batted Alonso there every night because he looked the part? Lineups don’t mean that much, but if I was TA I sure would wonder why every crappy DH is getting more ABs than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Jay has been starting since the trade deadline and is in the starting lineup as we speak. Hahn trying to trade him obviously wasn’t the only reason Ricky was playing him. Ricky loves playing Jay and putting him in stupid parts of the lineup based on his left handedness. I thought you were referring to Alonzo earlier in the year. Right now he really doesnt have any better options than Jay. Although the placement in the lineup is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Sanchez can bunt every time but he just got a single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, ptatc said: I thought you were referring to Alonzo earlier in the year. Right now he really doesnt have any better options than Jay. Although the placement in the lineup is the issue. Anyone (Cordell, Engel) would be a better option than Jay right now. The season is over and Jay will not be back. Why waste at bats on him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Sounds to me like Ricky's butthurt about something. We have Jay batting what is it, 7th today? That's abnormal, almost like someone told him what to do. Then you have a rant about sabermetrics? Sorry Ricky, your lineups suck a fat one. I hope someone did finally tell you that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said: Anyone (Cordell, Engel) would be a better option than Jay right now. The season is over and Jay will not be back. Why waste at bats on him? Why not? None of them are any good. If he was playing any of the others the case could be made for Jay to take their spot. The only winning move is not to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, ptatc said: Why not? None of them are any good. If he was playing any of the others the case could be made for Jay to take their spot. The only winning move is not to play. Strange hill to die on. Give the ABs to guys that actually have a chance to be here going forward. Not some vet that both sucks and has no future here. On top of that you could make an argument Jon Jay has been worse than Yonder. He's currently at -.8 fWAR in about 40 games. I'm fed up with this club in so many ways. I'm having a hard time once again seeing where this rebuild will have any sustained success with the idiots running things again saying and doing asinine shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: Strange hill to die on. Give the ABs to guys that actually have a chance to be here going forward. Not some vet that both sucks and has no future here. On top of that you could make an argument Jon Jay has been worse than Yonder. He's currently at -.8 fWAR in about 40 games. I'm fed up with this club in so many ways. I'm having a hard time once again seeing where this rebuild will have any sustained success with the idiots running things again saying and doing asinine shit. That's kind if my point. It doesnt matter if Jay is playing because none of the others are good options either. None of them will be starting next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, South Sider said: Sounds to me like Ricky's butthurt about something. We have Jay batting what is it, 7th today? That's abnormal, almost like someone told him what to do. Then you have a rant about sabermetrics? Sorry Ricky, your lineups suck a fat one. I hope someone did finally tell you that. I’m curious how this all came up. Did one of the awful beat reporters finally grow some balls and question Ricky on his BS decision-making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said: I can't wait until we get rid of this guy Like Collins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 They pick up some real trash along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Quin said: "Analytics would say to bat Tim Anderson higher up in the order in Yonder Alonso lower, but fat guys DH and DHs are #4 hitters. My gut says so." Don't forget Beef Wellington... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: That's kind if my point. It doesnt matter if Jay is playing because none of the others are good options either. None of them will be starting next year. I would tend to agree with you, especially regarding Engel, but Cordell has only 256 career plate appearances. There really is zero reason to start Jay over Cordell at this point. Give the at bats to players that may actually be around next year, even if it’s in a fourth outfielder role. Edited August 21, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) I own a business if I had an employee that said in so many ways that while the numbers are bad when he works he knows what's best because "he knows his customers" I'd fire him on the spot. What a disgrace. Edited August 21, 2019 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said: I would tend to agree with you, especially regarding Engel, but Cordell has only 256 career plate appearances. There really is zero reason to start Jay over Cordell at this point. Great orgs win at the margins. The Sox lose on them. Over and over and over again. Death by a million paper cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, ptatc said: Why not? None of them are any good. If he was playing any of the others the case could be made for Jay to take their spot. The only winning move is not to play. Here's the thing. Hahn traded decent players in Duke and Swarzak to acquire both of those guys. If the GM is okay with the manager playing a veteran whose main purposes (bringing in Machado, trade deadline move) have long passed, I don't know what it says about this organization's talent evaluation. Heck, it would even be better to give Daniel Palka those at-bats over Jay, because we still need to find a LH platoon bat for DH next year. Just strange we're prioritizing winning at the AAA level over the big league one right now. Not bringing up Robert and Madrigal is one thing, but it's just strange they're not willing to reward guys like Yermin and Mendick who worked hard for their opportunities all season long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I own a business if I had an employee that said in so many ways that while the numbers are bad when he works he knows what's best because "he knows his customers" I'd fire him on the spot. What a disgrace. You’re crazy if you think JR doesn’t completely agree with the anti-analytics approach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 There is no way you can even defend this. But I'm sure Hahn and crew don't care. He is saying that he manages on feel. That is not how you manage a baseball team in the year of our Lord 2019. Our clean up hitters most of the year have been Yonder Alonso, Wellington Castillo, and Jon Jay. I saw the lineup card after this thread and am assuming somebody said something to him, since it actually makes more sense than the usual trash lineups he constructs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: You’re crazy if you think JR doesn’t completely agree with the anti-analytics approach I am sure JR's secretary prints out his emails and reads them to him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Great orgs win at the margins. The Sox lose on them. Over and over and over again. Death by a million paper cuts. If you're comparing this to your business, it doesn't work. By your business sense, the White Sox are likely outstanding. Regardless of what they say, they worry about the bottom line. They're not trying to win the game of value if the value costs more than their break even point. Teams that go into the luxury tax very clearly aren't worried about maximizing profits and the bottom line when constructing their team. They take it into consideration, but there's a value to winning to them. No one can say one player pushing you over the luxury tax warrants the penalty because he gives you a better chance to win the World Series. Winning a World Series really isn't all that much more profitable than losing a 1st round wildcard game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, fathom said: You’re crazy if you think JR doesn’t completely agree with the anti-analytics approach Theres no way a business man is anti analytics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: If you're comparing this to your business, it doesn't work. By your business sense, the White Sox are likely outstanding. Regardless of what they say, they worry about the bottom line. They're not trying to win the game of value if the value costs more than their break even point. Teams that go into the luxury tax very clearly aren't worried about maximizing profits and the bottom line when constructing their team. They take it into consideration, but there's a value to winning to them. No one can say one player pushing you over the luxury tax warrants the penalty because he gives you a better chance to win the World Series. Winning a World Series really isn't all that much more profitable than losing a 1st round wildcard game. What a bizarre pivot from my post. I don't have any doubt JR wants to make money. I also think he likes to win, even a little. His manager is actively preventing that, in my obviously imperfect analogy (all of them are you know, that's why they are analogies) the point was that JR has ossified, stagnated and completely divorced himself from quality in his FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) This organization is in the dark ages and won't win a damn thing until they wake the fuck up. It has taken 20 years but it's getting hard to watch right now, and hearing shit like this coming from management. This might be the first time since 2007 that I largely ignore the Sox in September. They literally have no chance with this philosophy. They're treading the line of Dollar Bill Wirtz right now. I might have to start ignoring them. I'm considering following another team while keeping an eye on the Sox until new ownership happens. This is beyond unacceptable and infuriating. When ownership changes if they remain in Chicago I'll be back. Edited August 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 This entire front office is a disgrace tbh. Why are guys like Skole, Castillo, Reed, Jay, and to an extent Goins even getting AB's. It is common fucking knowledge these guys aren't in the plans when there are guys younger doing better things in AAA. I can be okay with Collins since for whatever reason he is being blocked by Castillo and whatever garbage is at DH so he can get more ABs. Fine. But where is Yermin and Mendick. You do not know what they are at the MLB level. Goins has been professional so I can't knock him and maybe he gets Yolmers spot next year as an IF utility guy. Then you have Fulmer who is out of options being put aside for the likes of Josh Osich, Herrera, and others when you still don't know what he will be really. This was allegedly the last year before we open the window and we still have a ton of unknowns that could be factors next year. Yermin has RAKED at every level. That could be a cheap, controlable DH option next year and we haven't got a sniff of him. Bringing some of these guys up in September is way too small of a sample size to rely on. It's pathetic. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Im not even a math guy, I'm a Cop. But when you have certain teams that are always winning and always doing the right thing with players and development YOU FOLLOW THAT TREND. To say you aren't going to do that because you've been a garbage manager in the league for however long is a disgrace to the fans and people like me that have gone to a considerable amount of games this season. Fuck Ricky and the FO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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