Renteria goes on pregame anti-analytics rant

[caulfield12]

The company line was always no adds after Kimbrel and that was only possible due to Zobrist sitting out much of the year...

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Tell that to the Astros as they added Verlander, Cole and Greinke. Or the Cubs with Chapman, Heyward and   Royals with Shields, Cueto and Zobrist.

Last time I checked, LAD and NYY aren’t winning any titles recently.

None of those players pushed the Astros anywhere near the luxury tax.

The cubs didnt go over the tax for those players.

I'm not sure you understand my point.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

None of those players pushed the Astros anywhere near the luxury tax.

The cubs didnt go over the tax for those players.

I'm not sure you understand my point.

Baseball teams will almost always add that final player if they are desperate to win a World Series.

It doesn’t always work.  The A’s in 2014 looked like all their additions would put them over the top, only to lose in that bizarre game to KC.

The Yankees and Dodgers are exceptions to the rule, but it’s not like they have been rewarded for it.

[caulfield12]

https://theathletic.com/1151459/2019/08/20/rick-renteria-doesnt-give-a-shit-what-you-think-of-his-lineup-not-that-he-should/?source=dailyemail

 

“I have conversations about Timmy hitting second, Eloy hitting fourth,” manager Rick Renteria said. “First of all, I do have conversations with the players. Timmy has been showing a lot better both against lefties and righties. He’s expressed that. He’s actually embracing the idea of possibly hitting second for us here. Why do I say possibly? Because once Yoán (Moncada) returns, maybe I’m thinking about slotting Yoán at the four hole. So I have to do some things to kind of prepare for that particular move. So if people are curious as to why, that’s one of the reasons why. Putting Eloy in the No. 4 hole right now is also because potentially down the road that’s where he can hit. So, I’m giving them and myself a different look.”

This is not an unusual amount of variation in lineups. The Cubs have already used 111 different lineups. The Astros were turning heads back in 2015 when they used 151 different setups for their starting nine, exploring a level of team-wide versatility that A.J. Reed later cited as why he fell out of their plans.

Pitching coach Don Cooper often talks about trying to build another rotation led by four workhorses like in 2005, but trotting out the same lineup for every game like the Sox did in the playoffs that year looks like the real relic of the past.

It’s also not unusual for lineups to be a source of daily angst and confusion for every fan base, and the White Sox certainly are no exemption. Leury García is pretty firmly installed at the leadoff spot, and there has literally only been one game all season that hasn’t seen José Abreu batting third, but the rest has been in a state of flux or constant tweaking.

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Baseball teams will almost always add that final player if they are desperate to win a World Series.

It doesn’t always work.  The A’s in 2014 looked like all their additions would put them over the top, only to lose in that bizarre game to KC.

The Yankees and Dodgers are exceptions to the rule, but it’s not like they have been rewarded for it.

Last year was the first year the Yankees didn't pay the tax since it came to be. The Dodgers paid the tax for 6 or 7 years. The Red Sox won the WS last year. They paid the tax. 

We don't need the White Sox to pay the tax. But if they are serious about contending for years, they better be prepared to come very close to the threshold. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Last year was the first year the Yankees didn't pay the tax since it came to be. The Dodgers paid the tax for 6 or 7 years. The Red Sox won the WS last year. They paid the tax. 

We don't need the White Sox to pay the tax. But if they are serious about contending for years, they better be prepared to come very close to the threshold. 

They're going no where close to that any time under this ownership.

[chitownsportsfan]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://theathletic.com/1151459/2019/08/20/rick-renteria-doesnt-give-a-shit-what-you-think-of-his-lineup-not-that-he-should/?source=dailyemail

 

“I have conversations about Timmy hitting second, Eloy hitting fourth,” manager Rick Renteria said. “First of all, I do have conversations with the players. Timmy has been showing a lot better both against lefties and righties. He’s expressed that. He’s actually embracing the idea of possibly hitting second for us here. Why do I say possibly? Because once Yoán (Moncada) returns, maybe I’m thinking about slotting Yoán at the four hole. So I have to do some things to kind of prepare for that particular move. So if people are curious as to why, that’s one of the reasons why. Putting Eloy in the No. 4 hole right now is also because potentially down the road that’s where he can hit. So, I’m giving them and myself a different look.”

This is not an unusual amount of variation in lineups. The Cubs have already used 111 different lineups. The Astros were turning heads back in 2015 when they used 151 different setups for their starting nine, exploring a level of team-wide versatility that A.J. Reed later cited as why he fell out of their plans.

Pitching coach Don Cooper often talks about trying to build another rotation led by four workhorses like in 2005, but trotting out the same lineup for every game like the Sox did in the playoffs that year looks like the real relic of the past.

It’s also not unusual for lineups to be a source of daily angst and confusion for every fan base, and the White Sox certainly are no exemption. Leury García is pretty firmly installed at the leadoff spot, and there has literally only been one game all season that hasn’t seen José Abreu batting third, but the rest has been in a state of flux or constant tweaking.

lmao, jfc.  Rickie is a nice guy but he's a simpleton.

[Roofshot]

33 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I have a coffee table book of Comiskey Park during the 1977 season. It was a dump. But it was a nice dump. JR's group actually did do a lot of fixing up of the place. 

If its called "Park Life", I have same book. Lots of great pics of fans at the games. I will give credit to the Chairman and Einhorn there, they really did spruce it up when they took over. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They're going no where close to that any time under this ownership.

Top 5 payrolls pretty consistently when they were good and competing. 

[chitownsportsfan]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Top 5 payrolls pretty consistently when they were good and competing. 

They had a 5th best payroll for a few years in the mid aughts.  That's about it.  Their historical norm, at least since around 1990, has been middle of the road or bottom 1/3.  They've never consistently been a big market payroll.  They are mid market and I would not expect them to approach the luxury tax.  At best you'll seem in that 5-15 range like we saw throughout most of the last 20 years prior to the rebuild.

 

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Top 5 payrolls pretty consistently when they were good and competing. 

Yeah but that was still what, $50 million beneath the tax level? 

[chitownsportsfan]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yeah but that was still what, $50 million beneath the tax level? 

The years they had a top 5, I believe there were 4 of them from 2006-2013, they were still a good 40-80 million below the top 3 or so teams.  They were a bigger mid market team but they never got close to leading the league in payroll.  Expecting them to exceed around 5-7th in the league seems a high expectation.  I'd be satisfied just getting back into the top 10.

[The Grinder]

I agree and disagree w RR, yes theres plenty of validity in stats but what wrong w going with yr gut? Makes me wonder how the managers from many yrs ago ever won the WS

And I'm not defending Ricky, yes he not our guy moving forward 

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

I agree and disagree w RR, yes theres plenty of validity in stats but what wrong w going with yr gut? Makes me wonder how the managers from many yrs ago ever won the WS

And I'm not defending Ricky, yes he not our guy moving forward 

Had RR said that there was a balance needed, sometimes going with your gut or using infromation you get by talking to your guys, and sometimes going with what the stats say, and then perhaps giving an example of each case, no one would complain about this. However, because he goes so strongly against statistics and people keep asking about it, he cites the need for balance, gives no examples of balance, and then tells anyone who is wondering where his statistics use is to bleep off. 

[harkness99]

yeah dude proving everyday that he is exactly what I perceive him to be.

 

Super nice guy.. but average at best intelligence.

[ron883]

@vilehoopster would be handing Ricky a lifetime contract after these comments if he was the owner

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

They had a 5th best payroll for a few years in the mid aughts.  That's about it.  Their historical norm, at least since around 1990, has been middle of the road or bottom 1/3.  They've never consistently been a big market payroll.  They are mid market and I would not expect them to approach the luxury tax.  At best you'll seem in that 5-15 range like we saw throughout most of the last 20 years prior to the rebuild.

 

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

If Jerry is willing to go top 5-10 we will have enough ammo to get the job done.

[GradMc]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:21 PM, Baron said:

Nice old man rant by Ricky. Time for him to go. 

The Sox are operated by fossils.

[SCCWS]

15 hours ago, The Grinder said:

I agree and disagree w RR, yes theres plenty of validity in stats but what wrong w going with yr gut? Makes me wonder how the managers from many yrs ago ever won the WS

And I'm not defending Ricky, yes he not our guy moving forward 

But assuming Kopech Robert and Madrigal are added to ML roster next year, when should a change be made? Those 3 plus Gio, Cease, Lopez, TA, Eloy and Yoan  are the major components of the rebuild. There are other pieces  like Vaughn and maybe Collins and then the major FA additions.  I consider it a bad sign if the big 3 from the coaching staff all return next year. 

[poppysox]

12 hours ago, harkness99 said:

yeah dude proving everyday that he is exactly what I perceive him to be.

 

Super nice guy.. but average at best intelligence.

I don't favor his lineups or his love of the bunt...that doesn't make me question his intelligence.  He's smart enough to get a job that only 30 people have.🙂

[Timmy U]

Ricky’s Neanderthal approach aside, I was equally disturbed by Cooper’s quote re Gio, “all crap aside, he’s throwing more strikes.”  You mean the crap that fixed him?  Without Trackman data, his high school pitching coach, and the two neural feedback guys, Lucas would still be following Coop’s advice and getting his brains beat in on two seamers.  This is not a good sign for the development of Kopech and Cease.

[Dominikk85]

On 8/21/2019 at 2:33 AM, ptatc said:

I will bet Hahn wanted Ricky to keep playing in the hope that he would play better and they would trade him. That's one I dont necessarily fault Ricky on. Where he had him in the lineup was the issue.

Playing Reed was certainly hahns order though. The sox are not Playing to win anyway so the hope was if you let him play for a month without pressure to perform maybe he turns a corner and becomes a tradeable asset.defintely a good decision even it didn't work.

[greg775]

any tape/link of Ricky's analytics tirade? I'd love to listen.

[Timmy U]

45 minutes ago, greg775 said:

any tape/link of Ricky's analytics tirade? I'd love to listen.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/rick-renteria-defends-his-daily-lineup-construction-im-going-do-what-i-think-i-need-do

[The Grinder]

On 8/22/2019 at 7:46 AM, SCCWS said:

But assuming Kopech Robert and Madrigal are added to ML roster next year, when should a change be made? Those 3 plus Gio, Cease, Lopez, TA, Eloy and Yoan  are the major components of the rebuild. There are other pieces  like Vaughn and maybe Collins and then the major FA additions.  I consider it a bad sign if the big 3 from the coaching staff all return next year. 

Hoping next yr RR not managing here, be nice to get a top notch manager in there and let him begin to mold a contender.