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Reinsdorf assures Ron that Abreu will always be a White Sox

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Joe Crede and Juan Uribe agree wholeheartedly...those guys consistently driving in runners from third and less than 2 outs were just some random lucky dudes.

Edited by caulfield12
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4 hours ago, ron883 said:

Wow, RBIs. Do you also use a slide rule when doing math instead of a calculator? Bloodlet when you are sick instead of antibiotics? 

I believe your question was what has Jose done that has been great.  The answer is simple:  he's driven in over 100 runs five times in his career, which places him third in all time White Sox history behind a Hall of Famer who did it ten times and a former All Star who did it six times. 

Driving in over 100 runs in the Major Leagues is a great feat.  Not saying it's the end all, be all for gauging how good a player is, but to drive in more than 100 runs as many times as Jose has is, indeed, a great achievement on his part.   

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5 hours ago, ron883 said:

Wow, RBIs. Do you also use a slide rule when doing math instead of a calculator? Bloodlet when you are sick instead of antibiotics? 

It's just wrong to deny RBIs mean SOMETHING. Only one player in the AL has more runs knocked in than Jose. Why not praise the man? Sox fans are weird sometimes. You have a precious guy like Abreu and it's always some people looking for his warts. 100 RBIs. Good job, Jose.

Somebody should start a congratulations thread for Jose. I won't do it cause it will look like I'm trying to stir things up.

Edited by greg775

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12 minutes ago, greg775 said:

It's just wrong to deny RBIs mean SOMETHING. Only one player in the AL has more runs knocked in than Jose. Why not praise the man? Sox fans are weird sometimes. You have a precious guy like Abreu and it's always some people looking for his warts. 100 RBIs. Good job, Jose.

Somebody should start a congratulations thread for Jose. I won't do it cause it will look like I'm trying to stir things up.

Scoring more runs that the opponent wins games.  Runs occur, typically, when one batter drives in runners and/or himself.  Jose has driven in 100 runs this year, and 72 of those runs were other players.  Considering the revolving door of #2 hitters (I'll at least acknowledge that Leury as the lead-off has been consistent) and the lack of OBP by the bottom of the lineup, Jose has been effective in driving in runs.  He's #2 in RBIs in the league and 6th in the majors.  That's pretty good in my book.

He's never been a great first baseman, and he's not getting any better.  His walks are way down, and that's taking a toll on his OBP.  He's not the same hitter OVERALL as he was.  But he's till a run producer and a threat to hit the ball out of the ballpark at any time.

For some reason, some fans love to shit on their own.  Honestly, though, the population of Abreu haters on this board is probably as low as the Abreu worshipers.  I think the majority of us like him and wouldn't mind seeing him around for a couple more years at $12-$14 million a year, especially with him taking on more of a DH role.  He certainly still has value, and his value as a leader and mentor cannot be undersold.

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47 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

Scoring more runs that the opponent wins games.  Runs occur, typically, when one batter drives in runners and/or himself.  Jose has driven in 100 runs this year, and 72 of those runs were other players.  Considering the revolving door of #2 hitters (I'll at least acknowledge that Leury as the lead-off has been consistent) and the lack of OBP by the bottom of the lineup, Jose has been effective in driving in runs.  He's #2 in RBIs in the league and 6th in the majors.  That's pretty good in my book.

He's never been a great first baseman, and he's not getting any better.  His walks are way down, and that's taking a toll on his OBP.  He's not the same hitter OVERALL as he was.  But he's till a run producer and a threat to hit the ball out of the ballpark at any time.

For some reason, some fans love to shit on their own.  Honestly, though, the population of Abreu haters on this board is probably as low as the Abreu worshipers.  I think the majority of us like him and wouldn't mind seeing him around for a couple more years at $12-$14 million a year, especially with him taking on more of a DH role.  He certainly still has value, and his value as a leader and mentor cannot be undersold.

When we actually have a better first baseman than Jose he will become the DH.  When we have both a better first baseman and a better DH than Jose we don't need him anymore.  We're not there yet.  Currently Jose is an all star first baseman.  For now lets worry about right field and DH.

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7 hours ago, ron883 said:

Wow, RBIs. Do you also use a slide rule when doing math instead of a calculator? Bloodlet when you are sick instead of antibiotics? 

Lmao.

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5 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Lmao.

I know, right? Can you believe these guys?

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14 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I know, right? Can you believe these guys?

Why would we use MRIs and CT Scans and X-Rays to measure disease and diagnose injuries we have LEACHES.  fWAR?  bWAR?  Gimme RBI.  Main that shit into my veins bruh.

Precision and accuracy?   oof.  That shit is for scientists and nerds and suckers true Glory is found in rubbing sticks together and hoping for rain.  Doppler radar?  Climate science? Farmer's Almanac.

Edited by chitownsportsfan
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14 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Why would we use MRIs and CT Scans and X-Rays to measure disease and diagnose injuries we have LEACHES.  fWAR?  bWAR?  Gimme RBI.  Main that shit into my veins bruh.

Precision and accuracy?   oof.  That shit is for scientists and nerds and suckers true Glory is found in rubbing sticks together and hoping for rain.  Doppler radar?  Climate science? Farmer's Almanac.

Hey Bruh, where did anyone say that.  Newton put the rules on gravity in what like 1700?  They are still important.  They have been built on, and gravity isn't the only important rule in science, but it is still there, and is the basis for a lot of other work. 

Advanced stats paint the picture.  Traditional stats paint the picture.  You know what is ignorant?  Having data and ignoring it for no reason other than you think it isn't cool --- or what is much worse, it doesn't support your point.

I don't understand why people try to use 1 stat to define a guy.  That is ridiculous.  There are tons of stats readily available right now.  They all tell a part of the story.  

Abreu is 15th in wRC+ among 1B.  Ok that is part of the story.  A big portion of wRC+ is OBP, which everyone knows isn't Jose's strong suit.  He also plays most of his games in a park that downgrade his production.  It makes sense that he wouldn't be killing it there.  It doesn't take a genius to see his weaknesses.  

He is 11th in SLG, which tells part of the story.  He is slow, but he hits more than his share of HR and 2B.   He gets an XBH in 11% of his ABs.  That seems like it would help an offense.  He is on pace for over 70 XBH this season.  Is that easy to replace?

He is 6th in BA.  He is 14th in ISO.

None of those numbers seem like a guy that is garbage.  

Highlighting his shortcomings while completely ignoring where he is good seems like you are conveniently using data that you want to prove the point you want.  It reeks of bias.  

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54 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I know, right? Can you believe these guys?

Do you ever feel like your dislike of Jose is a bit excessive? I mean guys like me think the world of Jose and his contributions to the White Sox on and off the field.

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Other than Jose...who are the other bad hitters with 100 rbi's?

Im not saying Abreu’s season applies but it does happen.  Recently would be Albert Pujols in 2017.  He finished the season with 101 RBIs and a putrid line of .241 .286 .386 .672.  If you are in the right spot in the lineup most of the season and get enough plate appearance, you can rack up over 100 RBIs even in a poor offensive season.  This is the ultimate example of why sabermatricians don’t value RBIs as much as other stats.  I mean, that’s a Yolmer type line right there.  Awful.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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13 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Why would we use MRIs and CT Scans and X-Rays to measure disease and diagnose injuries we have LEACHES.  fWAR?  bWAR?  Gimme RBI.  Main that shit into my veins bruh.

 Precision and accuracy?   oof.  That shit is for scientists and nerds and suckers true Glory is found in rubbing sticks together and hoping for rain.  Doppler radar?  Climate science? Farmer's Almanac.

Great points. It's really too bad that the advanced metrics actually suggest he's a good hitter though. 

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I may sound like a broken record but I'm sure it's not nearly as bad as some others in this thread. The argument is framed as a "people who like data/progress and advanced metrics think Abreu is bad, people who are stuck in the Stone Age think Abreu is good", but this is quite ironic because his exit velo, hard hit rate, xwOBA, etc. are all really good. I think the debate says more about people's ability to take multiple data points and use advanced metrics the way they were intended to be used than anything else. 

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5 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I may sound like a broken record but I'm sure it's not nearly as bad as some others in this thread. The argument is framed as a "people who like data/progress and advanced metrics think Abreu is bad, people who are stuck in the Stone Age think Abreu is good", but this is quite ironic because his exit velo, hard hit rate, xwOBA, etc. are all really good. I think the debate says more about people's ability to take multiple data points and use advanced metrics the way they were intended to be used than anything else. 

Thank you . I think Abreu belongs at DH but multiple data points as you say suggest he is not bad. In support of my 5 yrs of 100 RBI's stance I also brought up the sabermetric clutch stat which is WPA and leveraged index, a stat none of those guys seem to know anything about or choose to ignore by making witty ( and i use that term loosely) comments making fun of RBI's by comparing them to antiquated medical things.

It's just the last resort when you can't support your case with your baseball knowledge. Baseball discussion  good. Being a jerk  bad.

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5 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

I may sound like a broken record but I'm sure it's not nearly as bad as some others in this thread. The argument is framed as a "people who like data/progress and advanced metrics think Abreu is bad, people who are stuck in the Stone Age think Abreu is good", but this is quite ironic because his exit velo, hard hit rate, xwOBA, etc. are all really good. I think the debate says more about people's ability to take multiple data points and use advanced metrics the way they were intended to be used than anything else. 

Notice you rarely get an answer to your posts. I often hear on here that I am overreacting and nobody hates Abreu on here besides Ron. Yet I kind of beg to differ. I definitely sense an "I wish he'd go away" mentality in posts about Jose. And the stat people don't usually answer your points at all. They just mock me praising Jose's RBIs.

Then last night I turn on the Royals game on TV for the first time in a while and the first discussion I hear is them gushing about Simien's 7 RBIs.

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On 8/21/2019 at 12:44 PM, Jack Parkman said:

I like Abreu, but Moncada is the type of player that you say this about, not Abreu. 

But, you don’t win with just one player 

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1 hour ago, elrockinMT said:

But, you don’t win with just one player 

I think baseball is in big trouble if the only stats that matter are ones that take great explaining as to how they are compiled. The viewer isn't supposed to concern himself/herself any more with pitcher wins/losses, batters BA, RBI. Homers are blah because of the lively ball unless you whack more than 50. Not much to go by anymore, even if virtually every broadcast uses the old stats.

Edited by greg775

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On 8/26/2019 at 2:08 PM, caulfield12 said:

Joe Crede and Juan Uribe agree wholeheartedly...those guys consistently driving in runners from third and less than 2 outs were just some random lucky dudes.

Yolmer could easily drive in 100 if he was Jose Abreu. 

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8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Thank you . I think Abreu belongs at DH but multiple data points as you say suggest he is not bad. In support of my 5 yrs of 100 RBI's stance I also brought up the sabermetric clutch stat which is WPA and leveraged index, a stat none of those guys seem to know anything about or choose to ignore by making witty ( and i use that term loosely) comments making fun of RBI's by comparing them to antiquated medical things.

It's just the last resort when you can't support your case with your baseball knowledge. Baseball discussion  good. Being a jerk  bad.

I think Jose has six years avg 100 rbi. I get the whole defense thing he can be frustrating over there and swings at those bad pitches. Wonder if Doc Steverson has been any help at the plate.

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22 hours ago, ron883 said:

I know, right? Can you believe these guys?

It’s almost as unbelievable as you gleefully dancing on Jose’s grave a day or two before he went on an AL-player-of-the-month tear...albeit not as hilarious. I wonder if you realize how vindicating it is watching you troll Jose a few times a year into a white-hot-streak that proves over and over again you have absolutely no idea in hell what you’re talking about on any level.

Edited by Greg Hibbard
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On 8/21/2019 at 7:53 PM, vilehoopster said:

A loyal, consistent, and outstanding player. He deserves the respect of ending his career with the White Sox and not being nickeled and dimed out of a few million dollars. 

I say three years and 36 millions, at least. And if he is only productive one more year (Which I absolutely doubt as he shows no signs of slowing down), he has still earned it for his loyalty, clubhouse presence, and constant and consistent production. 

I just don't get you guys. Some people on here are still expressing regret that we didn't sign Machado ( a complete and total dick and clubhouse cancer) for over $30 million a year for ten years. Yet you want to insult a loyal warrior and get him to sign for only two years for less than 20 million for both years. I don't get it. 

Right now, Abreu has two more home runs than Machado, 25 more RBIs and a better OPS than Machado. I don't begin to get it. 

Abreu 2019 WAR: 1.4 (this is awful)
Machado 2019 WAR: 2.9

You're comparing the players with statistics that should have stopped being used for comparison years ago.

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9 minutes ago, Steve9347 said:

Here's a snapshot of where Jose Abreu stands in WAR among offensive players this year: 

image.png

He's got a worse WAR than a catcher who has 104 at bats this year. FFS the guy's terrible.

I wouldn't say "awful." He would be a big upgrade at the DH spot compared to the mess we've had lately.

Edited by soxfan2014

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