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Reinsdorf assures Ron that Abreu will always be a White Sox

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44 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

See, I was expecting some version of this as I deserve it. Jose sure looked like he was slowing down to me to the eyes and in his numbers, and now I'm reevaluating how I think about veteran hitters now that we're seeing guys like Abreu and Cruz do things with the bats that we haven't really seen since the steroid era. 

But "See fWAR doesn't work well!!" is just about the worst version of this take I could possibly imagine. He hasn't suddenly turned himself into a good fielder or baserunner, he's found the best hitter in the world magic that he had when he first came to the states! Justin Smoak didn't become a bad player because of defense or baserunning, he fell apart with the bats!

At least criticize me in a way that makes some sense. Come on.

See, I'm not the only one who thought the same thing

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47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

See, I was expecting some version of this as I deserve it. Jose sure looked like he was slowing down to me to the eyes and in his numbers, and now I'm reevaluating how I think about veteran hitters now that we're seeing guys like Abreu and Cruz do things with the bats that we haven't really seen since the steroid era. 

But "See fWAR doesn't work well!!" is just about the worst version of this take I could possibly imagine. He hasn't suddenly turned himself into a good fielder or baserunner, he's found the best hitter in the world magic that he had when he first came to the states! Justin Smoak didn't become a bad player because of defense or baserunning, he fell apart with the bats!

At least criticize me in a way that makes some sense. Come on.

Smoak had one good season, outside of that he’s sucked. It’s really that simple. I don’t care what his fWAR was the previous three seasons.

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5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Reviewing this thread, I’m not nearly as embarrassed by my posts as I expected to be. My biggest concern was agreeing to a third year and I think that was a completely fair take at the time. What’s really remarkable though is how awesome Jose has been against RHP this year, which drove a lot of my concerns.  Look at how we was trending against RHP coming into into the 2020 season.  Who could have seen this coming?  

It’s very clear to me that Jose got himself into better shape this past offseason, but I also think having improved protection behind him and a guy who takes a ton of pitches in front of him in Grandal have really helped as well.  Regardless, kudos to Jose on what has been a legit MVP caliber season.  IMO, no position player has had a bigger impact on their team’s 2020 performance than Abreu and hopefully voters reward him with his first MVP.

  • 2014: 155 wRC+, 20.9% K rate, 6.9% BB rate, .250 ISO
  • 2015: 147 wRC+, 21.3% K rate, 5.3% BB rate, .240 ISO
  • 2016: 120 wRC+, 17.4% K rate, 6.2% BB rate, .159 ISO
  • 2017: 128 wRC+, 17.2% K rate, 4.7% BB rate, .239 ISO
  • 2018: 107 wRC+, 18.3% K rate, 5.9% BB rate, .196 ISO
  • 2019:   99 wRC+, 23.7% K rate, 4.7% BB rate, .215 ISO
  • 2020: 166 wRC+, 20.8% K rate, 5.4% BB rate, .293 ISO

I felt the same. Now the way I'm looking at it is if he accepts the QO with no extension, we would be wanting him back on a multi-year deal after the season he is having.

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4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

See, I was expecting some version of this as I deserve it. Jose sure looked like he was slowing down to me to the eyes and in his numbers, and now I'm reevaluating how I think about veteran hitters now that we're seeing guys like Abreu and Cruz do things with the bats that we haven't really seen since the steroid era. 

But "See fWAR doesn't work well!!" is just about the worst version of this take I could possibly imagine. He hasn't suddenly turned himself into a good fielder or baserunner, he's found the best hitter in the world magic that he had when he first came to the states! Justin Smoak didn't become a bad player because of defense or baserunning, he fell apart with the bats!

At least criticize me in a way that makes some sense. Come on.

Your shitty comparison sucked ass. 

Better?

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This dude has put in the work and has turned himself into an MVP level player.  His work defensively is frankly mind blowing.  An aging DH type is playing a gold glove 1B in addition to slugging: what more can you say?

FO nailed this one and happy to be wrong.

Edited by chitownsportsfan
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On 9/13/2020 at 10:30 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

This dude has put in the work and has turned himself into an MVP level player.  His work defensively is frankly mind blowing.  An aging DH type is playing a gold glove 1B in addition to slugging: what more can you say?

FO nailed this one and happy to be wrong.

Depending on how things go in the postseason with the team, but Jose has the potential to be the real feel-good story for the game next month. 

Lots to love here, both with his own performance and evolution along with how he is central to this team's current and future success. 

He has a chance to shine a really positive light on this franchise nationally in a way we haven't seen in a long, long time.   

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3 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Depending on how things go in the postseason with the team, but Jose has the potential to be the real feel-good story for the game next month. 

Lots to love here, both with his own performance and evolution along with how he is central to this team's current and future success. 

He has a chance to shine a really positive light on this franchise nationally in a way we haven't seen in a long, long time.   

He's gonna have to pretend it's big league chew tho 😀

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11 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Depending on how things go in the postseason with the team, but Jose has the potential to be the real feel-good story for the game next month. 

Lots to love here, both with his own performance and evolution along with how he is central to this team's current and future success. 

He has a chance to shine a really positive light on this franchise nationally in a way we haven't seen in a long, long time.   

Last year, I was not sure about whether the Sox should extend Jose...then I saw the story of Abreu's Amigos and what he does with those developmentally disadvantaged youngsters.  The story showed Jose interacting with them with such love.  At the end of that story, I was very sad at the prospect that Jose might not be a White Sox for his whole career.  Jose Abreu is such a genuine guy who works his butt off and leads this club by example.  I am so happy at the outstanding season he has had to really show how vital his extension was to the success of this ballclub.

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7 minutes ago, wegner said:

Last year, I was not sure about whether the Sox should extend Jose...then I saw the story of Abreu's Amigos and what he does with those developmentally disadvantaged youngsters.  The story showed Jose interacting with them with such love.  At the end of that story, I was very sad at the prospect that Jose might not be a White Sox for his whole career.  Jose Abreu is such a genuine guy who works his butt off and leads this club by example.  I am so happy at the outstanding season he has had to really show how vital his extension was to the success of this ballclub.

Not sure how I never heard of Abreu’s Amigos before, thank you for sharing that.

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57 minutes ago, wegner said:

Last year, I was not sure about whether the Sox should extend Jose...then I saw the story of Abreu's Amigos and what he does with those developmentally disadvantaged youngsters.  The story showed Jose interacting with them with such love.  At the end of that story, I was very sad at the prospect that Jose might not be a White Sox for his whole career.  Jose Abreu is such a genuine guy who works his butt off and leads this club by example.  I am so happy at the outstanding season he has had to really show how vital his extension was to the success of this ballclub.

Then when you add in things like the story about Jimenez stepping up his worth ethic to mimic Jose, plus the conjecture that Luis Robert is here because of Jose... If Jose's leadership really did play that kind of a role in moving these prospects along, Abreu's extension paid for itself before he even had an AB.

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8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then when you add in things like the story about Jimenez stepping up his worth ethic to mimic Jose, plus the conjecture that Luis Robert is here because of Jose... If Jose's leadership really did play that kind of a role in moving these prospects along, Abreu's extension paid for itself before he even had an AB.

I could not agree with you more.  I know he is in a covid funk right now, but Moncada's extension could also be attributed to the Abreu extension as well.

Hell, for me that Jose extension was paid in full by that first Cubs series this season. ;)

Edited by wegner

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I think Jose has motivated himself to set an example for the young guys.  The lost weight and improved by leaps and bounds hitting and defense is something I have never seen in a lifetime of watching baseball.  He has transformed himself from an aging player that most on this board wanted gone...into a legitimate candidate and probable favorite for the MVP.  Self-pride is his motivator.

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7 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I think Jose has motivated himself to set an example for the young guys.  The lost weight and improved by leaps and bounds hitting and defense is something I have never seen in a lifetime of watching baseball.  He has transformed himself from an aging player that most on this board wanted gone...into a legitimate candidate and probable favorite for the MVP.  Self-pride is his motivator.

Absolutely. Totally ok with him being here the 2 extra years now. He definitely would have played himself into a multi-year deal had they not extended him and just let him ride out the QO.

Edited by soxfan2014

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23 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Absolutely. Totally ok with him being here the 2 extra years now. He definitely would have played himself into a multi-year deal had they not extended him and just let him ride out the QO.

At the time I hated the 3/50 deal, but Jose has already put together about 2.5 WAR in 60 games. His prorated AAV salary for this year is a hair over 6m. If 1 WAR is worth 7m, Jose has produced about 17.7m of value this year, so his surplus value for just this year is a little over 11m. Even if regressed to a 2 WAR player over the course of a whole year for the next two years, the Sox are still going to end up with probably at absolute worst equivalent value on the whole deal and most likely will have some surplus value.

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57 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

At the time I hated the 3/50 deal, but Jose has already put together about 2.5 WAR in 60 games. His prorated AAV salary for this year is a hair over 6m. If 1 WAR is worth 7m, Jose has produced about 17.7m of value this year, so his surplus value for just this year is a little over 11m. Even if regressed to a 2 WAR player over the course of a whole year for the next two years, the Sox are still going to end up with probably at absolute worst equivalent value on the whole deal and most likely will have some surplus value.

Yeah doing some kitchen table math, Jose only needs to produce 1 fWAR for each of the next two seasons to break even on his contract. If the sox make a deep run and he wins some hardware in addition to his mentorship and bringing the young guys into the fold hes has paid for himself.

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